Hey all-

Last fall I had Robi do a basic package on my '06 MR. Swift springs, bushings, rear bar, and alignment. As I believe he typically does, he went max neg. camber on the front.

Today, I switched the winter tires back out for the summer tires. While looking at the winter tires that were on for about 3k miles with the new alignment, I noticed the insides of the fronts were a lot more worn than the outside (to be expected with the camber settings). Something I didn't expect though, was the really strange wear. If I ran my hand along the tread along the circumfrence of the tire in the inside, it was "bumpy". It's hard to explain, but it was like running your hand over ground that had a series of evenly placed small ant hills. We noticed this winter that the tires got way noisier than they were last winter, and I'm sure this is why. When I looked closely, you could actually see it.

Now, my wife and I are all about performance. We plan to track the car a bit this summer, SCCA and possibly some open track stuff up near Chicago. It has not been tracked as of yet, it's been an easy driven daily driver since last fall with absolutely no abuse.

However, we can't afford to replace tires every couple of months (who can) due to this. I don't even want to drive it now that the stock tires are on the car and risk ruining them in only 1500 miles or so. Honestly I have no idea if this situation is due to the alignment or not.... but I need to figure it out before ruining $1k worth of tires.

I tried to find Robi's email so I could ask directly, but I couldn't find it and his website seemed to be down. Any one have any advice or similar experience, or an explanation for any of this?

I would like to express that this is NOT a complaint in any way, we have been totally happy with Robi's work. Just trying to get some information so we can make educated choices.

Thanks
Robb

 

Get it up on an alignment rack. If he went max negative camber up front you're probably looking about about -3* and that will eat the insides a bit, however mostly what you want to look for is any toe on any wheel, in or out. Toe will murder your tires more quickly than anything else.

 

Hmm, I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean by bumps on the inside where it is worn. Can you post some pictures? Is it even visible in a picture?

As far as the tire wear, get used to it

 

Unfortunately no, I can't get a pic. It's very hard to explain. Say you were running your hand along your flat kitchen counter, but every 4 inches your hand hit a bump that would raise your hand up an eighth of an inch. Now instead of running your hand along the counter, you are running your hand along the tread of the tire. Make sense?

As for the treadwear, get used to it? This isn't a dedicated race car, I can't get used to it. If that is the result of this alignment, then I'll have to change it back. Now the tread wearing faster on the inside than outside, I could maybe deal with. But this whole bumpy situation I cannot.... the tires are so loud now it's unbearable, after only 3k miles. I don't want my stock Advans to be the next victim. The winter tires that are now so loud weren't exactly cheap either. I really do hope it's all unlrelated to the alignment. I didn't think camber alone would case this issue....

Thanks

 

What you're describing is called cupping...usually associated with poor wheel balance or worn dampers.

As far as accelerated wear on the inner edge...that could be attributed to toe, or if driven man, many thousands of miles with -3* negative camber and no rotation, you might see wear from that.

HTH!

 

I now better understand what you were trying to get across. I'm not quite sure why you feel those bumps, could be the tire itself ? Not sure.

As far as getting used to the wear, that's completely normal man. What did you expect with 3 degrees up front ? Ya you turn in faster but you sacrifice tire wear for it. It's all in the name of racing. Tire wear on the inside can be dangerous and go BOOM after a while. 3 degrees of camber WILL do that. The tires become useless when the insides are worn. The rest can be brand spankin new but it does not matter. I'm all for it and yes it does get expensive but remember, YOU GOTTA PAY TO PLAY.

And by no means am I rich, just the typical kid that knows he will eat **** and pay out big bucks for tires. I think people sometimes forget what they get themselves into.


-Arbi

 

I didn't forget, I just have to decide if it's okay. Like I said, I'm probably okay with the accelerated wear, but that cupping really sucks. I suppose the wheel balance could be an issue.... but the car is brand new - dampers should be fine right?

 

By the way, my notifications aren't working for this thread, but they always used to..... anyone else having that problem? I used to get email updates to subscribed threads....

 

robispec

 

The struts should be fine, yes. You may have thrown a wheel weight off. Like I said get it up on an alignment rack and check for toe at any of the four corners, it might be eating your tires.
Way to contribute.

 

I bet you have a front toe alignment problem. I doubt you are getting camber related wear from your description, without camber plates (I’m assuming none as you didn’t mention it) the most you could get with factory adjustments would be around 1.5 to 1.6 negative and that would be within factory specs. I had my 05 (lowered with similar springs to yours) set to max negative setting with about 1.6 negative and experience excellent wear from my summer and snow tires.

The bumps you describe are either fathering or cupping and both could be signs of toe issue.

I would take it to a good alignment shop and have everything checked out have the tech set your toe to ZERO. I’ve done a lot of track days and autocross and have replaced dozens of tires, zero toe is best for street track driving.

 

For all of you assuming he has -3 deg...you are wrong. He only has springs. With the stock setup and no camber plates the most you'd get is -1.8 unless you modified the bolts. IF he had camber plates/coilovers max camber would certainly be higher than -3...more like -5+

 

Nope, no camber plates and I don't believe the bolts were modified. This was all done as part of the Robispec basic package, Swift MR springs, rear adjustable bar, bushings, and laser alignment in my garage.

I guess I was assuming it wasn't an alignment issue since everyone says how much better of a job he does with his setup than a shop can do, but maybe something came loose, or who knows.

Thanks for all the advice, I'll try to get it into a shop soon. Do you guys have any advice on what alignment machine to have it checked on?

 

The machine that comes with a competent operator/mechanic. I have had cars aligned on the latest greatest equipment and had a crap alignment...I have had someone do a quickie alignment with a trammel rod and electronic level in my garage and it was superb...the difference: the person doing one was a moron and the other was great with alignments.

I know, I know, that was no help.

The point is, more someone you trust/know to be competent than the equipment. Get your alignment checked out...a couple of hard wacks on potholes, curbs, speedbumps, etc. can knock toe out a degree or two, and that can make a big difference. Like I said earlier, no alignment lasts forever.

If all that seems okay, then have the balance on your winter wheels/tires checked.

 

As an alignment tech and based on your description, it sounds like your car has some very aggressive toe settings. Balance wear is very hard to determine and usually will look like a tire is seperating (or if you can grok the concept, about to seperate). Balance wear is usually also seen on fairly large tires (think semi) more than passenger level tires. Raised edges on tread blocks belies an alignment thats less than perfect. Camber wear is always specific and usually isolated to the first tread row on standard sized tires.