suspension set up
I do have about 2 seasons in auto-x. I drove my evo as well as my friend’s sti. I have a set of s-type springs and iam not happy with them. The only other suspension mod I have is front and rear strut bars. I wanted to get a better set up that’s why iam asking for what everyone thought. I see everyone's point of getting some experience and I think that I have some and want to be able to be more competitive since my mods do put me in a higher class(higher boost, no cat, springs). On that note what do you people suggest my next step is?
To get rid of those springs and get a true suspension package from a professional Evo suspension builder like Robispec. You could also go with the PIC TSOs for $1550 and not have to touch another thing.
PS. The Evo comes with a front strut tower bar stock, so nothing to upgrade there really, and we don't have rear struts, so the rear tower bar is just for decoration.
PS. The Evo comes with a front strut tower bar stock, so nothing to upgrade there really, and we don't have rear struts, so the rear tower bar is just for decoration.
If you're just starting, leave the car stock! It's not like the Evo handles like crap out of the box. I can guarentee you that the ability of the car far outweighs your ability to drive it.
edit: yikes! Just noticed you're on 'S-type' springs. Your car almost definitely handles worse than stock. Um, upgrade.
edit: yikes! Just noticed you're on 'S-type' springs. Your car almost definitely handles worse than stock. Um, upgrade.
Last edited by spdracerut; Jul 23, 2007 at 09:08 AM.
frycztech:
What class you intend to run? I'm just curious.
A suspension's primary purpose it to keep the tires serving their purpose (grip and power transfer) for a certain chassis. Unless the chassis, tires, or driving conditions change significantly, there is only a very small range of settings that are ideal.
Do not let rubbish references to "road racing" or "good deals" on Tein coilovers with toys like EDFC sway your course in suspension tuning. Proper suspension tuning for street, road racing and auto x can be quite different from each other. I think there is allot of misconception/misinformation and misleading marketing whether intentional or not, that if something is "good enough for serious road racing" and/or "still bearable for street driving," then it's got to have you covered for AutoX, right? Wrong. Not necessarily always untrue, just more often than not. Yes the car will drive under all those conditions, but how well?
Just because a suspension has tons of adjustment doesn't mean any of the adjustment is necessarily even within the range of settings you want to be in for your intended use. Allot of coilovers, both cheap and expensive, don't come with springs that are ideal for your use, or dampers that are matched or even adjustable within the range of what is ideal for the supplied spring rates or the spring rates that you do need, so then what good are they? Also, allot of adjustable dampers are surprisingly inconsistent with themselves and each other. Even many big-name and expensive dampers are guilty of this.
There is a suspension setup that's extremely well engineered, has the proper spring rates, height, and damping for most all-around and some high performance driving, can produce excellent results in moderate competition, and won't cost you much at all. It's called your stock suspension. Mr Bilsteins if you popped for it. People go crazy "upgrading" things, throwing money left and right on a car that's very well engineered for high performance already, and end up with something that performs the same or worse. I'm not saying the stock suspension can't be improved upon and there is no reason to change it, but rather that if you are going to change it, do it informed, knowing WHAT you want to change HOW, the RIGHT WAY and only as an IMPROVEMENT, not just a "modification."
The bottom line is: there is a pretty small range of setting that are ideal for your use. It is worth figuring out what spring rates, ride height and damping settings are ideal for your use, and getting those needs met. The only true advantage to adjustable height coilovers in my personal opinion is the ease or corner weighting. Besides this, in theory, if your figured out all the ideal spring rates, height, and damper settings beforehand and could corner weight it, a set of the right springs and dampers is all you need with the proper alignment. And if you could simulate and predict the driving conditions, these would already be spot-on. for reference, F1 cars don't use coilovers. You don't see them in the pits changing damping settings or ride height. They figure out what's RIGHT, and run it.
THAT is the true value in the services offered by people like Robi and Mueller, NOT so much the hardware in the package they offer, although that is important too. They carefully select and swap springs, re-valve dampers, and corner weight the car. If you can get these things done properly, it really doesn't matter what brand or model parts you are on, unless they break, which can happen to any brand/model under the right conditions. So even the most expensive, big name suspension setup isn't worth $h!t in lap time unless it's tuned properly. Some companies' services (like robi, Mueller) are capable of doing a pretty darn close guesstimate of what settings will be ideal just from experience and can pre-set your equipment before they ship it to you, but nothing is going to be as good as gathering data in use and adjusting accordingly. Ok, so this is another benefit of coilovers, but that's only if the springs and dampers on them are right to begin with!
Here is a source that I have extremely useful:
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets.html
read, read, read...
What class you intend to run? I'm just curious.
A suspension's primary purpose it to keep the tires serving their purpose (grip and power transfer) for a certain chassis. Unless the chassis, tires, or driving conditions change significantly, there is only a very small range of settings that are ideal.
Do not let rubbish references to "road racing" or "good deals" on Tein coilovers with toys like EDFC sway your course in suspension tuning. Proper suspension tuning for street, road racing and auto x can be quite different from each other. I think there is allot of misconception/misinformation and misleading marketing whether intentional or not, that if something is "good enough for serious road racing" and/or "still bearable for street driving," then it's got to have you covered for AutoX, right? Wrong. Not necessarily always untrue, just more often than not. Yes the car will drive under all those conditions, but how well?
Just because a suspension has tons of adjustment doesn't mean any of the adjustment is necessarily even within the range of settings you want to be in for your intended use. Allot of coilovers, both cheap and expensive, don't come with springs that are ideal for your use, or dampers that are matched or even adjustable within the range of what is ideal for the supplied spring rates or the spring rates that you do need, so then what good are they? Also, allot of adjustable dampers are surprisingly inconsistent with themselves and each other. Even many big-name and expensive dampers are guilty of this.
There is a suspension setup that's extremely well engineered, has the proper spring rates, height, and damping for most all-around and some high performance driving, can produce excellent results in moderate competition, and won't cost you much at all. It's called your stock suspension. Mr Bilsteins if you popped for it. People go crazy "upgrading" things, throwing money left and right on a car that's very well engineered for high performance already, and end up with something that performs the same or worse. I'm not saying the stock suspension can't be improved upon and there is no reason to change it, but rather that if you are going to change it, do it informed, knowing WHAT you want to change HOW, the RIGHT WAY and only as an IMPROVEMENT, not just a "modification."
The bottom line is: there is a pretty small range of setting that are ideal for your use. It is worth figuring out what spring rates, ride height and damping settings are ideal for your use, and getting those needs met. The only true advantage to adjustable height coilovers in my personal opinion is the ease or corner weighting. Besides this, in theory, if your figured out all the ideal spring rates, height, and damper settings beforehand and could corner weight it, a set of the right springs and dampers is all you need with the proper alignment. And if you could simulate and predict the driving conditions, these would already be spot-on. for reference, F1 cars don't use coilovers. You don't see them in the pits changing damping settings or ride height. They figure out what's RIGHT, and run it.
THAT is the true value in the services offered by people like Robi and Mueller, NOT so much the hardware in the package they offer, although that is important too. They carefully select and swap springs, re-valve dampers, and corner weight the car. If you can get these things done properly, it really doesn't matter what brand or model parts you are on, unless they break, which can happen to any brand/model under the right conditions. So even the most expensive, big name suspension setup isn't worth $h!t in lap time unless it's tuned properly. Some companies' services (like robi, Mueller) are capable of doing a pretty darn close guesstimate of what settings will be ideal just from experience and can pre-set your equipment before they ship it to you, but nothing is going to be as good as gathering data in use and adjusting accordingly. Ok, so this is another benefit of coilovers, but that's only if the springs and dampers on them are right to begin with!
Here is a source that I have extremely useful:
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets.html
read, read, read...
Last edited by hokiruu; Jul 23, 2007 at 09:47 AM.
hokiruu:
I understand what you saying. Iam in the sm class because of my mods. From what everyone is telling me and what i have experienced i don't like the s-type springs. I wanted to upgrade and i don't want to make a mistake and buy something that would be no better. Everyone is recommending all these places that will put something together that would suite me. Is there a site i can look at?
I understand what you saying. Iam in the sm class because of my mods. From what everyone is telling me and what i have experienced i don't like the s-type springs. I wanted to upgrade and i don't want to make a mistake and buy something that would be no better. Everyone is recommending all these places that will put something together that would suite me. Is there a site i can look at?
hokiruu:
I understand what you saying. Iam in the sm class because of my mods. From what everyone is telling me and what i have experienced i don't like the s-type springs. I wanted to upgrade and i don't want to make a mistake and buy something that would be no better. Everyone is recommending all these places that will put something together that would suite me. Is there a site i can look at?
I understand what you saying. Iam in the sm class because of my mods. From what everyone is telling me and what i have experienced i don't like the s-type springs. I wanted to upgrade and i don't want to make a mistake and buy something that would be no better. Everyone is recommending all these places that will put something together that would suite me. Is there a site i can look at?
robispec clubsports 2800
rear sway, front roll center/bumpsteer kit, rear trailing arm bushings, rear bumpsteer kit, everything installed, aligned and cornerweighted for 1100
your evo then will out turn 95% of the evos out there (lots of other robispec evos lol)
rear sway, front roll center/bumpsteer kit, rear trailing arm bushings, rear bumpsteer kit, everything installed, aligned and cornerweighted for 1100
your evo then will out turn 95% of the evos out there (lots of other robispec evos lol)