Rear toe maxxed out?
Feb 5, 2008, 12:17 PM
#1
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Rear toe maxxed out?
I brought my car to NTB last week for an alignment after putting on stock sized winter tires. I'm also lowered in Tein Flex 2 inches in front and about .9 inches in the back. When i went to pick my car up they said that my rear tow was maxxed out at -0.0XXX degrees and I've never been in an accident so I tried to ask him about some possible reasons as to why it's maxxed out because if anything isn't the rear supposed to have either zero toe or a bit of toe in? Now it doesn't even go back to zero toe. All he gave me was a lecture on how when you turn a bolt to the bottom it won't turn anymore like I'm an idiot. I just want to know if it has anything to do with my coilovers and if there's anythign I can do to fix it. The closest thing i can find are the whiteline rear roll center adjustment kits and I don't even know how those work so please enlighten me.
Also for my fronts they said that one side had a bit of toe out and so they adjusted the other side to match it. Next time I go in can i specify what settings I want the car to be? Because I want zero toe in front and either zero or a bit of toe in in the back. It just seems like they're doing the bare minimum to get the car withing specs.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
Also for my fronts they said that one side had a bit of toe out and so they adjusted the other side to match it. Next time I go in can i specify what settings I want the car to be? Because I want zero toe in front and either zero or a bit of toe in in the back. It just seems like they're doing the bare minimum to get the car withing specs.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
Feb 5, 2008, 01:00 PM
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Camber affects toe. What is your rear camber? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but if you increase your negative camber, you can pull you toe more positive. This may be the problem, if they're trying to make you rear camber too positive.
Even so, -0.0xxx toe out is not really a big deal. OEM specs are slight (VERY slight) toe in. If you're an average driver, you won't feel the different between -0.0x and 0.0x. But again, try increase you rear camber to about -1 to -1.5.
Even so, -0.0xxx toe out is not really a big deal. OEM specs are slight (VERY slight) toe in. If you're an average driver, you won't feel the different between -0.0x and 0.0x. But again, try increase you rear camber to about -1 to -1.5.
Feb 6, 2008, 07:34 AM
#7
What I hate about NTB is that they don't get the sides to match evenly most of the time.
My front is -2.2 camber which is great! But my rear is -1.6 on the left and -1.7 on the right. I don't know why he can't get them to be the same since there's adjustment available. The toe I can't remember right now but they're off by about 1 to 2 10th's of a percent from one another.
Otherwise this setup is great. The car still kicks out in the rear a little bit on hard throttle in lower gears--but is much more controlled now. The only negative is that it's really harsh on the tire wear (inside to outside).
I'll probably try -1.5 camber front and -1.0 camber rear with 0 toe all around for daily driving.
Have them show you the car on the rack, and also have them let you sit in the car while the alignment is being done!!!
My front is -2.2 camber which is great! But my rear is -1.6 on the left and -1.7 on the right. I don't know why he can't get them to be the same since there's adjustment available. The toe I can't remember right now but they're off by about 1 to 2 10th's of a percent from one another.
Otherwise this setup is great. The car still kicks out in the rear a little bit on hard throttle in lower gears--but is much more controlled now. The only negative is that it's really harsh on the tire wear (inside to outside).
I'll probably try -1.5 camber front and -1.0 camber rear with 0 toe all around for daily driving.
Have them show you the car on the rack, and also have them let you sit in the car while the alignment is being done!!!
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Feb 6, 2008, 07:55 AM
#8
Sounds like you should go somewhere else. There's a few things that could be happenning; competency of the tech comes to mind first. Everything effects toe, if he adj. your alignment in the wrong order then toe will never be right. The order should be ride height, caster, camber, toe. It's also possible that he set up the machie incorrectly. Btw if you lowered the front 2'' like you say then a roll center kit is required to keep the steering geometry correct.
Feb 13, 2008, 01:14 PM
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i work at a dealership and do alignments all the time and had to align my own evo after buying due to it being lowered and alignment was way off. Had to remove the ecentric's from the rear and get a dremel to elongate the adjustment holes because the stock adjustments were not enough to bring it in spec. i was wearing the fu@@ out of the insides of my tires. get ur wheels straight or get ready to buy tires every 15k
Feb 25, 2008, 11:09 AM
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Sorry people its been a while. Here are my alignment specs:
Front left:
Camber: -1.3 Toe -0.03
Front right:
Camber: -1.2 Toe 0.04
Front:
Cross Camber: 0 Total Toe: 0.01
Rear Left
Camber: -1.5 Toe -0.17
Rear Right:
Camber -1.4 Toe -0.15
Front left:
Camber: -1.3 Toe -0.03
Front right:
Camber: -1.2 Toe 0.04
Front:
Cross Camber: 0 Total Toe: 0.01
Rear Left
Camber: -1.5 Toe -0.17
Rear Right:
Camber -1.4 Toe -0.15
Feb 25, 2008, 03:45 PM
#12
Mar 5, 2008, 06:26 PM
#14
When you lower the car, the camber goes in the left field. The camber adjustment is not that big and the toe adjustment is the same size as the camber. Try to get more positive camber and you will get more toe range so you could toe it in. But if the camber cams are all the way in and you can not get any more positive camber out of them then you need to but one of those adjustable rear control arms and then adjust it. You dont want alot of negative camber and zero or negative toe for the street. Dont even think telling me that your tires are not wearing. I do alignments at work and I did my car because my tires were geting a little f-up and sure enough my toe was a little toe out with a lot of negative camber. Fix the camber and then you will get the toe back. By the way you have adjust toe and camber at the same time and it gets anoing so the guy who did your car could of just been "layze". Look at the cams.
Jan 31, 2009, 08:39 PM
#15
When you lower your car to the point yours is, you lose some ability to pull the toe in. Here is what you need to have the tech do for the rear:
Set the rear toe to maximum positive first. The eccentric bolt should be all the way IN. Then adjust the rear camber while watching the toe readout on the monitor. As you change camber, it will change toe. Set the camber to whatever you need to get the toe to ZERO. You will probably end up with around -1.6 to -1.8* of camber in the rear. As long as you rotate your tires you will not hurt longevity much. Also, when you notice the inside edge is starting to get worn almost flat - have them flip the tires on the rims so the outside is now on the inside. This will allow you to use up all the available tread, instead of running the inside edge bald and having 1/4" of tread depth on the outside edge.
My race car is aligned probably 10 times a year. This method works. Even if your rear camber is off by 0.3* from left to right you will not feel it, but if your toe is off significantly from side to side you WILL feel it. . .
Also, adjustable rear lower control arms will NOT fix this issue. Only the Nagisa upper toe control arms may give you more leeway in toe settings.
Set the rear toe to maximum positive first. The eccentric bolt should be all the way IN. Then adjust the rear camber while watching the toe readout on the monitor. As you change camber, it will change toe. Set the camber to whatever you need to get the toe to ZERO. You will probably end up with around -1.6 to -1.8* of camber in the rear. As long as you rotate your tires you will not hurt longevity much. Also, when you notice the inside edge is starting to get worn almost flat - have them flip the tires on the rims so the outside is now on the inside. This will allow you to use up all the available tread, instead of running the inside edge bald and having 1/4" of tread depth on the outside edge.
My race car is aligned probably 10 times a year. This method works. Even if your rear camber is off by 0.3* from left to right you will not feel it, but if your toe is off significantly from side to side you WILL feel it. . .
Also, adjustable rear lower control arms will NOT fix this issue. Only the Nagisa upper toe control arms may give you more leeway in toe settings.