evo_soul

already in the works. I just dont have an EVO 8 - 9 HSD Coilover available to me yet. Waiting for Mobil1 to fund the next round of tests. Its really not to prove anyone right or wrong. What ever the result, I think there are a few people out there that want to see what happens. Right now currently have my hands full testing intakes, but I will keep you guys in the loop. Looking to see what other coilover I can throw into the mix to keep this interesting.

Anyone know of an independent stock dyno lab in Cali.

toyota4me2

Dang wheres the popcorn

ezzey

iTrader: (3)

I've already looked through quite a few different suspension setups for the evo, and MOST don't even have the "correct" spring rates, but as long as its offered as an option then that shouldnt be a problem.

I won't argue your knowledge, you may really know your stuff when it comes to chassi, suspension, evo's geometry, etc.. but straight up bashing a coilover is plain dumb. Maybe there isn't any actual dyno data yet, but that doesn't mean its garbage.

Its like me saying "you're driving skills are terrible" without ever seeing you perform.

Im sure all the reviews that have been done in the past on the coilover, not every one of those drivers and reviews was complete bull****. Im sure some of those drivers/user's have experience and knowledge in how the car handles and behaves with the equipped suspension.

Has every part thats out there for the evo's been tested and proven? Even by the bigger known companies? I doubt it.

/dave

Smike

iTrader: (8)

From the TLC group, eh? How about you go re-read this argument I've pointed out a half dozen times with this so called vendor. Kthansbi.

KahoX

I don't think Smike is bashing on HSD but the way evosoul been "hard sell" on the products that they carry as a vendor. A lot of vendors here sells HSD, BC Racing, Stances coil, Tein etc but the only difference is they don't twist or bend their words/theory to make them better than others. They leave the choice to the consumers.

I've been reading these posts coz I'm trying to find some good infos on choosing my coils too and these Smike/evosoul posts been educative and entertaining

evo_soul

Entertainment factory Popcorn sales are up


Smike you know better than anyone else why I pay for vendor status. Because everytime my local car club (Toronto Lancer Car Club) would put on a group buy or do some kind of local commerce. It kinda sucked when a vendor would lock our threads when we were trying to organize our own stuff. I sell license plate mounts on EBAY to offset the cost of my vendor fees. So if that makes me a so called vendor. So be it. Everything I do and talk about is on my blog. But you know the thought has crossed my mind to be a formal vendor. Time will tell I guess once my car club's website is launched.

Speaking directly to you, if you think I have slighted you in anyway, then I apologize. I am not interested in tit-for-tat finger pointing or one upping. I just have opinions on things, just like you do I am sure. I do all this so I can learn, because thats what the forum setting is all about, and if I have info that I think is relevant to the average lancer owner I share it.

Smike

iTrader: (8)

My point is that you have no grounds to comment on what is or is not a good quality setup. You take manufactures claims at face value and do not understand what all goes into a proper setup. All those so called coilovers below KW, AST, Ohlins, JRZ are not worth the metal they are made from. You have a vendor status title. That carries weight. The less informed will take what you say as the gosspel. And I do not think that is wise or a fair shake to them.

Its been proven again and again by countless drivers that: OEM - Swift/GTWorx/Robi + Bilstein - $1500-2000 coilovers - $2000+ coilovers is the tree. Notice, cheap/low quality is not on there. For the performance, you will not get better than the spring/strut combo until you are really ready to pay for a top quality setup.

PS: Just yesterday I FTD'd (2nd in PAX) in an SM prepped Evo on Swift SpecRs and Bilsteins. And it was the first time I've driven an Evo in an AX in 3 years.

evo_soul

Sigh... as this thread gets more and more off topic I will somewhat keep my answers related to the thread.

I understand your point clearly. In a nutshell I am not allowed to have an opinion on what I think is good quality based on what I have used and tested. Well sir, my point of view is my own. Sure I am not an expert at suspension for all cars, hey, I would be first to admit, I dont know everything. but I am hungry to ask questions and learn. Second, You think that I accept manufacturer claims as if god handed it down himself. It's laughable to say that (I am known for a little sarcasm from time to time, but.... sure, what ever you say.... Thank you for summing up my entire life and my experiences and judging for yourself that I do not understand anything. To be honest, everyone sticks by what they know and the brands or things they trust. Its that simple. Your comment about my vendor status "The less informed will take what you say as the gosspel. And I do not think that is wise or a fair shake to them." Its a bit funny. Your telling me there are people that follow what ever a vendor says blindly because of the status next to their name. While you call them the less informed... I am just a guy with an opinion on a few things. But if you think I am corrupting minds... so be it. What can I say... or not say... to that.

Third, "All those so called coilovers below KW, AST, Ohlins, JRZ are not worth the metal they are made from." I find things wrong with that statement. A) the quality of these coilovers you have mentioned is pretty good. If not, the highest ones for the community here in the united states, possible else where. Not going to argue the point that their reputation proceeds them in a good way. But where my thinking may differ from yours is, to assume that they have reached the highest peak of perfection is not valid. To say there isnt something else out there that rivals it without testing or experimenting is a bit strange thing. The reason why these companies continue to exist is because they keep tightening their game and improving their product. I am actually a fan of the Technical guys at AST Nothing ever stand still in this game, if you snooze for a second your gone. Isuzu, 3DFX, SEGA, lol you get my point.

(I feel a story coming on)
But by saying these are the only 4 coilovers that have untouchable status is a bit premature. Fact of the matter is, those coilovers haven't really been widely available up here in Canada. For many years we had a currency that was vs. the USA that was almost 40% less. It was only in the last 3 years when our buying power has increased to the point where we now can purchase just about any coilover or other aftermarket part for very good cost as a retail buyer. And because Canadians are the way we are, we tend to buy things from outside our market, not just the USA. What does being Canadian have anything to do with anything you ask? Just telling you my point of view, our Tuner seen has been deprived of a few things, Quality parts, Amazing cars like the EVO 8/9 (only admissible into Canada recently). While the tuner market in the USA is shrinking a bit, in Canada its on the rise and there are guys looking for stuff that works, is affordable and lasts. I make recommendations all the time because people ask, I am "no wise old man" like many on here. But I tend to see what works and what does. I admin over a car club, so I am at the centre of vendors and customers, I see it all. Final point about being Canadian. We deal with winter, so the few summer months that we get are precious.

Bringing this snaking off topic thread back on topic. HSD... if I were to sum up everything you have said about this coilover. You dont like it. You dont think its worth you time to even consider it. You have said time and time again that the setup is all wrong, all the positive reviews out there are void by people who are (how did you put it?) something along the line of morons because they dont understand a proper setup for the EVO 7 8 9. That's fine, you can fold your arms and stand fast on that position. I get it, and no one can take that away from you. I take your opinions very seriously. That said, I am willing to spending my own money to test the coilovers using a shock dyno to get answers. Only because your you have been so passionate on your position.

My final question for you directly is.... I need your help. I am not knowledgeable on shock dynos. I know the basics... thanks to AST I know its purpose,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1OiI9KyJCQ
A must watch for anyone who wants to know how these machines work.

but I am unsure what type of printout report to get that would properly show the capability in the context of the EVO 7 8 9. If you were to consider a coilover based on shock data... what are we looking for?

wingless

iTrader: (15)

Way to take the high road!

Smike

iTrader: (8)

If the company cannot supply their own shock dyno data...it tells you two things. 1 - they don't have it. 2 - they buy inserts from some mass production place (likely China).

http://www.youtube.com/user/ASTSUSPE.../4/J3us26FHJFc
http://www.youtube.com/user/ASTSUSPE.../5/3QrSkucWsiM
http://www.youtube.com/user/ASTSUSPE.../2/EuiJR1MvkEk
http://www.youtube.com/user/ASTSUSPE.../3/HcffYohRe-g

You can call AST and ask if they will do it. Competitor analysis is pretty much done everywhere.



I almost feel bad for the Evo. Too many of the good people have left the platform. Now too many want cheap parts and think they are good parts.

evo_soul

Right

Smike

iTrader: (8)

Stating the obvious. Any company that I deal with professionally and personally that cannot get the information that I need or gives me some song/dance -- red flags. That's good consumerism to be aware of what they are not saying.

You should not have to pay for that data. They should be willing to show it you to.

240Z TwinTurbo

iTrader: (25)

Red Flag

evo_soul

Smike, you just told me I am listening to manufacturers too much? Your whole argument was that if they gave me the data not to trust it. If they give it to me and looks good... that wouldnt be enough for you to accept correct... And since your one of the more vocal critics of the kit and others like it. I would rather pay my own money, to find a kit and send it to be benchmarked independently... then toss it up here to get the collective feedback.

I find this exciting

Smike

iTrader: (8)

You're listening to them when they tell you "oh, we don't have the data...but trust us, they are great".

By others, you mean drifto morons and so-called drivers who want hella cool? Then yes.

Bottom-line that I've said time in and out. You want cheap coilovers; you'll get cheap coilovers. Expect just that - cheap. I firmly believe its a WASTE of money. And one mistake you'll be paying for 2x. First time to do it wrong. Second time to fix it.

My check list. Do your own math (geometry, motion ratios, wheel rates, etc). Figure out the ballpark of that the car should have as a measuring stick to check brands to. We know the Evo MR and data. We know the chassis is setup for higher rear rates. Get good construction internals. Get best valving you can afford that is matched to the rates you will be running. 23123 adjustment clicks mean jack when they don't do anything. We have 9 years of racing proof on rates and multiple people have won major national championships. Not to mention the dozens of regional winners.

You came in saying this and that oh and these are great. False.

You want to slam your Evo. Go by a Honda or VW. You want one of the best handling cars for the time period -- do it right or not at all.

I am a critic of you. Period. You don't have an Evo. You have not raced an Evo. You have not developed parts for the Evo.

Once upon a time, the Evo was one of the top choices for people who wanted to do AX and track days. Now its in the hands of the stupid. Connect the dots on all this cheap parts ending up on this car.



Have a great day.