Spring Rate Chart
Apr 28, 2004, 08:03 AM
#78
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Espelir ASD Springs
I am not sure if you Espelir SAD entry is meant to be the ASD springs or not.
But having installed the ASD springs (Blue ones) yesterday, I noticed a couple of things.
1. Definately more than 3/4 of an inch drop, and they have not even settled yet. At stock, I could place 4 fingers vertically between teh tread and top of the wheel well arch. Now I can put in 2. Measuring that I got almost 1 1/4 inch drop in the front.
2. They look to be progressive rate springs. With a tight wound section (closely spaced coils) and then a greater spaced section (More vertical space between coils).
The ride is comparable to stock on normal roads, though I still need to get aligned before I drive too much more, as the drop skewed my camber a bunch, and that will effect toe settings.
But having installed the ASD springs (Blue ones) yesterday, I noticed a couple of things.
1. Definately more than 3/4 of an inch drop, and they have not even settled yet. At stock, I could place 4 fingers vertically between teh tread and top of the wheel well arch. Now I can put in 2. Measuring that I got almost 1 1/4 inch drop in the front.
2. They look to be progressive rate springs. With a tight wound section (closely spaced coils) and then a greater spaced section (More vertical space between coils).
The ride is comparable to stock on normal roads, though I still need to get aligned before I drive too much more, as the drop skewed my camber a bunch, and that will effect toe settings.
May 9, 2004, 03:16 PM
#80
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my espleirs are aligned, im a bit annoyed with the "lower than I thought" appearance, but awesome handling........ mine are aligned close to stock
-shahul
-shahul
May 9, 2004, 07:51 PM
#81
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What 's the drop on the espleirs that you guys are really getting, opposed to the advertised drop? 1.5 front ? What are you getting in the rear ?
May 9, 2004, 09:00 PM
#82
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Tri-Bar,
Do you autocross? I was also considering getting the Tanabe GF210 Springs because they maintained the spring proportions and drop the closest to stock. I figure the engineers at Mitsubishi must know something about suspension tuning, so why not just increase the spring rate proportionally without upsetting the balance front/rear and don't affect the overall difference in heights front/rear also. Tanabes seemed the best blend after ruling out the progressive shocks because of their poor autocross history.
What do you think?
Do you autocross? I was also considering getting the Tanabe GF210 Springs because they maintained the spring proportions and drop the closest to stock. I figure the engineers at Mitsubishi must know something about suspension tuning, so why not just increase the spring rate proportionally without upsetting the balance front/rear and don't affect the overall difference in heights front/rear also. Tanabes seemed the best blend after ruling out the progressive shocks because of their poor autocross history.
What do you think?
May 10, 2004, 08:59 AM
#83
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Whitet777,
Yes i do Autocross. I like the GF210's spring rates for the street. The drop is not so close to stock however, it drops the car 1.5 front and 1.0 rear. It is a good drop IMHO. I must tell you that I just don't have the springs, so the balance is not the same as stock. I also have the Works 24mm rear sway bar and a modified front one with poly bushings. It does seem to work well Autocrossing. I have out turned cars setup with coilovers. You really can't go wrong with the Tanabe GF210's.
Yes i do Autocross. I like the GF210's spring rates for the street. The drop is not so close to stock however, it drops the car 1.5 front and 1.0 rear. It is a good drop IMHO. I must tell you that I just don't have the springs, so the balance is not the same as stock. I also have the Works 24mm rear sway bar and a modified front one with poly bushings. It does seem to work well Autocrossing. I have out turned cars setup with coilovers. You really can't go wrong with the Tanabe GF210's.
May 10, 2004, 09:07 AM
#84
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Tri-Bar, I pm'd you with some more questions. As a follow up to your thread above, you said you like the Tanabes for the street. I assume then you mean you like them for autocrossing then also right?
So, if I put on my Hotchkis rear bar and tanabe springs, I would be pretty close to your setup I guess.
So, if I put on my Hotchkis rear bar and tanabe springs, I would be pretty close to your setup I guess.
May 10, 2004, 09:19 AM
#85
Have any of you guys asking for a softer ride tried switching to a tire with a softer sidewall? The sidewalls on the stock Yokahamas are very stiff. My all season daily drivers made my ride much smoother. However, turn-in is very slugish. Sorry to go slightly OT, but I think people should at least wait till the Advans have had it and switch to differnet tires.
May 10, 2004, 09:43 AM
#86
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Thread Starter
whitet777,
I PM'd you.
Autoxer,
Yes a softer side wall will make the car ride better. You can tune for a faster turn in even with a softer sidewalled tire. You might not want to go back to the Yok's after that, it would be way to twitchy, But it can be done. Thanks for the Info.
I PM'd you.
Autoxer,
Yes a softer side wall will make the car ride better. You can tune for a faster turn in even with a softer sidewalled tire. You might not want to go back to the Yok's after that, it would be way to twitchy, But it can be done. Thanks for the Info.
May 11, 2004, 12:57 AM
#87
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I think the RS*R spring rates are wrong..
I think both RS*R down springs and Ti2000 springs are the same...
246/325 & 1.4f/0.8r
http://www.rs-r.com/products/suspens...wn_springs.php
http://www.rs-r.com/products/suspension/ti2000.php
I think both RS*R down springs and Ti2000 springs are the same...
246/325 & 1.4f/0.8r
http://www.rs-r.com/products/suspens...wn_springs.php
http://www.rs-r.com/products/suspension/ti2000.php
May 11, 2004, 12:11 PM
#89
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I emailed Tanabe about their springs being progressive or linear, and this is their response:
Here is some suspension 101
The GF210 coil spring is geared more towards performance and track use due to its more linear rates and higher spring rate, but is completely suitable for daily driving.
Regarding progressive and linear rates, there is a lot of misinformation on the internet as to what is better, why, and what to look for. Many people tend to ask "Are they progressive or linear?" For standard coil springs that mount to OEM style shocks and struts, they cannot be one or the other.
Standard automotive coil springs (with the exception of fixed diameter springs for adjustable coilover suspension) are both linear and progressive. For drivability and ride comfort, a portion of the spring uses a progressive rate, while the majority is linear. One thing that sets different manufacturer's springs apart is the percentage of progressive 'coils' on the spring versus the linear 'coils'
The GF210 for the Lancer EVO VIII is predominantly linear.
Typically the progressive coils are wound tightly together and are located on the the top and bottom of the spring. The center portion has evenly spaced coils, which is the linear rate.
What dictates how many progressive coils a spring should have? This can only be determined through thorough R&D, and is dependent on many factors, including upper and lower OEM spring perch, weight of the vehicle as well as several others.
The progressive coils located on the top and bottom of the spring help with daily driveability and work to absorb some of the shock from irregular road conditions.
A common misconception is that the struts dictate driving performance. Struts, also called dampeners, work in conjunction with the spring to ensure that the bound and rebound of the suspension is not too quick, or too slow. The majority of suspension travel and handling is performed by the coil spring. If a shock (or adjustable coilover in many cases) is valved too stiffly, it is not allowing the spring to perform it's function. This is a huge misconception with many people who are looking for adjustable coilovers and look strictly at the dampening stiffness as a gauge of 'performance.' A stiff dampener does not compress nor rebound quickly, which means the contact patch of the tire with the ground is not optimal or at 0%. A proper spring/strut combo or adjustable coilover suspension will have a spring rate and internal valving that is mated to complement each other. "Stiffer is not always better"
Tires are the only thing connecting the car to the road, if the contact patch is not optimal or non existent, then handling performance is degraded.
Best Regards,
Tanabe Racing Development, USA
Here is some suspension 101
The GF210 coil spring is geared more towards performance and track use due to its more linear rates and higher spring rate, but is completely suitable for daily driving.
Regarding progressive and linear rates, there is a lot of misinformation on the internet as to what is better, why, and what to look for. Many people tend to ask "Are they progressive or linear?" For standard coil springs that mount to OEM style shocks and struts, they cannot be one or the other.
Standard automotive coil springs (with the exception of fixed diameter springs for adjustable coilover suspension) are both linear and progressive. For drivability and ride comfort, a portion of the spring uses a progressive rate, while the majority is linear. One thing that sets different manufacturer's springs apart is the percentage of progressive 'coils' on the spring versus the linear 'coils'
The GF210 for the Lancer EVO VIII is predominantly linear.
Typically the progressive coils are wound tightly together and are located on the the top and bottom of the spring. The center portion has evenly spaced coils, which is the linear rate.
What dictates how many progressive coils a spring should have? This can only be determined through thorough R&D, and is dependent on many factors, including upper and lower OEM spring perch, weight of the vehicle as well as several others.
The progressive coils located on the top and bottom of the spring help with daily driveability and work to absorb some of the shock from irregular road conditions.
A common misconception is that the struts dictate driving performance. Struts, also called dampeners, work in conjunction with the spring to ensure that the bound and rebound of the suspension is not too quick, or too slow. The majority of suspension travel and handling is performed by the coil spring. If a shock (or adjustable coilover in many cases) is valved too stiffly, it is not allowing the spring to perform it's function. This is a huge misconception with many people who are looking for adjustable coilovers and look strictly at the dampening stiffness as a gauge of 'performance.' A stiff dampener does not compress nor rebound quickly, which means the contact patch of the tire with the ground is not optimal or at 0%. A proper spring/strut combo or adjustable coilover suspension will have a spring rate and internal valving that is mated to complement each other. "Stiffer is not always better"
Tires are the only thing connecting the car to the road, if the contact patch is not optimal or non existent, then handling performance is degraded.
Best Regards,
Tanabe Racing Development, USA
May 11, 2004, 02:09 PM
#90
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Here is some more correspondence from Tanabe including my email they were responding to:
Hello Tim
Each spring is researched and developed at our ISO 9001 certified Shiga Manufacturing Facility in Japan. All Tanabe coil springs have a tensile strength of 2100 nm (highest in the industry) and all are pre-loaded to 100% during production and quality control so that they will never sag. There is a very thorough article on our manufacturing process in this Month’s Import Tuner.
For raw data on handling, lateral g’s, skidpad, etc that information is held by our engineers in Japan and we do not currently have access to it.
Best Regards,
Tanabe Racing Development, USA
-----Original Message-----
To: info@tanabe-usa.com
Subject: RE: Important question on GF210
Thank you very much for response. This helps clear up many issues.
My remaining question is, Does Tanabe test each spring out on every car or is the GF210 a generic spring for multiple cars? You say R&D goes into the development. As an engineer, I would love to hear some of the performance increases you saw in the Mitsubishi Evolution 8 development.
Thanks
Tim
Hello Tim
Each spring is researched and developed at our ISO 9001 certified Shiga Manufacturing Facility in Japan. All Tanabe coil springs have a tensile strength of 2100 nm (highest in the industry) and all are pre-loaded to 100% during production and quality control so that they will never sag. There is a very thorough article on our manufacturing process in this Month’s Import Tuner.
For raw data on handling, lateral g’s, skidpad, etc that information is held by our engineers in Japan and we do not currently have access to it.
Best Regards,
Tanabe Racing Development, USA
-----Original Message-----
To: info@tanabe-usa.com
Subject: RE: Important question on GF210
Thank you very much for response. This helps clear up many issues.
My remaining question is, Does Tanabe test each spring out on every car or is the GF210 a generic spring for multiple cars? You say R&D goes into the development. As an engineer, I would love to hear some of the performance increases you saw in the Mitsubishi Evolution 8 development.
Thanks
Tim