Suspension Refresh, question though..
May 10, 2019, 08:26 AM
#1
Suspension Refresh, question though..
Good morning!
My Evo IX is about to hit 155k and I was looking into refreshing all the suspension bushings. This is my daily and it will see maybe 3 track days in a year. I'm currently saving for the Ohlin's coil overs, hopefully in the next few months they will be in the car. Currently on some low mileage OEM KYB struts (bought used), Swift Sport springs and a whiteline rear sway bar. I'll be ordering SuperPro bushings for the front and rear including their spherical bushing for the front, OEM spherical bushings for the rear lower control arms (4 total), febest or hardrace ball joints for the rear (6) and the whiteline bump steer/roll center correction kit for the front. This should cover every single bushing and ball joint on the car.
My question is, would I benefit greatly from also getting the rear bump steer kit or am I ok getting a non offset bushing?
My Evo IX is about to hit 155k and I was looking into refreshing all the suspension bushings. This is my daily and it will see maybe 3 track days in a year. I'm currently saving for the Ohlin's coil overs, hopefully in the next few months they will be in the car. Currently on some low mileage OEM KYB struts (bought used), Swift Sport springs and a whiteline rear sway bar. I'll be ordering SuperPro bushings for the front and rear including their spherical bushing for the front, OEM spherical bushings for the rear lower control arms (4 total), febest or hardrace ball joints for the rear (6) and the whiteline bump steer/roll center correction kit for the front. This should cover every single bushing and ball joint on the car.
My question is, would I benefit greatly from also getting the rear bump steer kit or am I ok getting a non offset bushing?
Last edited by u189961; May 10, 2019 at 10:27 AM.
May 10, 2019, 11:27 AM
#2
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
The rear bump steer bushing doesn't hurt. Especially since the car will be lowered. My car has it.
May 10, 2019, 11:57 AM
#3
Yeah, if youre going to go through the bushes, you might as well get the rear bump steer bush. I have it as well.
You wont feel it necessarily but since your in there & you do track, go for it
Any chance you can stop DD'g the EvO. Be great to just weekend it? No?
You wont feel it necessarily but since your in there & you do track, go for it
Any chance you can stop DD'g the EvO. Be great to just weekend it? No?
May 10, 2019, 12:27 PM
#4
Unfortunately not at the moment but I would like to get a beater car by the end of the year so I can make the Evo a weekend car only. My long term goal is to refresh the suspension completely and have the motor built, suspension phase almost done, just need the Ohlin's R&T. Once motor build phase is complete, it's definitely going to be a weekend/track day car only!! I went ahead and ordered the rear bump steer bush, should be a fun little weekend project but luckily I have a pneumatic press so I'll be saving quite a bit on labor
May 10, 2019, 12:46 PM
#5
I certainly would never recommend the rear bumpsteer bushing. That design is just a massive pile of dung. Theres nothing to clock it and as you adjusts toe, it also turns away from where you're trying to move the toe. So you need to make sure its clocked right and only adjust toe with tire in the air (unloaded) and even then you cant actually verify if the bushing has moved.
On top of that, it might as well be zero adjustment. The offset is so small that the actual effect on bumps steer is just about nill.
So since its basically useless but makes toe adjustment worse, 100% dont bother.
For the WL RCK, its only 5mm of adjustment so in normal WL fashion the name implies more than the result effects. But, it is a good joint so if your's are bad/old/worn, its a bit of a spendy replacement but a fine joint that should last well enough. If you add caster with the lower control arm rear bushing or strut top caster plate, use the OEM tie rod and not the WL part in their kit. Adding caster increase bumpsteer (moves relative position of steering pivot and lower ball joint). Using the OEM tie rod counters that at least a bit being 5mm shorter than the WL tie rod.
On top of that, it might as well be zero adjustment. The offset is so small that the actual effect on bumps steer is just about nill.
So since its basically useless but makes toe adjustment worse, 100% dont bother.
For the WL RCK, its only 5mm of adjustment so in normal WL fashion the name implies more than the result effects. But, it is a good joint so if your's are bad/old/worn, its a bit of a spendy replacement but a fine joint that should last well enough. If you add caster with the lower control arm rear bushing or strut top caster plate, use the OEM tie rod and not the WL part in their kit. Adding caster increase bumpsteer (moves relative position of steering pivot and lower ball joint). Using the OEM tie rod counters that at least a bit being 5mm shorter than the WL tie rod.
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Fox_IX (Jul 22, 2019)
May 10, 2019, 01:54 PM
#6
I certainly would never recommend the rear bumpsteer bushing. That design is just a massive pile of dung. Theres nothing to clock it and as you adjusts toe, it also turns away from where you're trying to move the toe. So you need to make sure its clocked right and only adjust toe with tire in the air (unloaded) and even then you cant actually verify if the bushing has moved.
On top of that, it might as well be zero adjustment. The offset is so small that the actual effect on bumps steer is just about nill.
So since its basically useless but makes toe adjustment worse, 100% dont bother.
For the WL RCK, its only 5mm of adjustment so in normal WL fashion the name implies more than the result effects. But, it is a good joint so if your's are bad/old/worn, its a bit of a spendy replacement but a fine joint that should last well enough. If you add caster with the lower control arm rear bushing or strut top caster plate, use the OEM tie rod and not the WL part in their kit. Adding caster increase bumpsteer (moves relative position of steering pivot and lower ball joint). Using the OEM tie rod counters that at least a bit being 5mm shorter than the WL tie rod.
On top of that, it might as well be zero adjustment. The offset is so small that the actual effect on bumps steer is just about nill.
So since its basically useless but makes toe adjustment worse, 100% dont bother.
For the WL RCK, its only 5mm of adjustment so in normal WL fashion the name implies more than the result effects. But, it is a good joint so if your's are bad/old/worn, its a bit of a spendy replacement but a fine joint that should last well enough. If you add caster with the lower control arm rear bushing or strut top caster plate, use the OEM tie rod and not the WL part in their kit. Adding caster increase bumpsteer (moves relative position of steering pivot and lower ball joint). Using the OEM tie rod counters that at least a bit being 5mm shorter than the WL tie rod.
You also make a good point about the tie rod ends. I ordered the front control arm rear spherical bushing that is not offset so caster won't change. Do the Ohlin's R&T top plates have caster adjustability? If they do I'll make sure to have new OEM tire rod ends if the alignment place would be adjusting caster. Thanks again!
May 10, 2019, 02:17 PM
#7
This is really good information, thanks for sharing. It makes perfect sense and I hesitated to order this last piece because of the design. The offset sleeve itself is not bonded to bushing itself so I kept thinking to myself, what if it were to move out of position on either side.....there would be no way to verify unless you took the arm off and looked at the sleeve orientation. I went ahead and ordered the non offset bushing.
You also make a good point about the tie rod ends. I ordered the front control arm rear spherical bushing that is not offset so caster won't change. Do the Ohlin's R&T top plates have caster adjustability? If they do I'll make sure to have new OEM tire rod ends if the alignment place would be adjusting caster. Thanks again!
You also make a good point about the tie rod ends. I ordered the front control arm rear spherical bushing that is not offset so caster won't change. Do the Ohlin's R&T top plates have caster adjustability? If they do I'll make sure to have new OEM tire rod ends if the alignment place would be adjusting caster. Thanks again!
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May 10, 2019, 02:36 PM
#8
Good morning!
My Evo IX is about to hit 155k and I was looking into refreshing all the suspension bushings. This is my daily and it will see maybe 3 track days in a year. I'm currently saving for the Ohlin's coil overs, hopefully in the next few months they will be in the car. Currently on some low mileage OEM KYB struts (bought used), Swift Sport springs and a whiteline rear sway bar. I'll be ordering SuperPro bushings for the front and rear including their spherical bushing for the front, OEM spherical bushings for the rear lower control arms (4 total), febest or hardrace ball joints for the rear (6) and the whiteline bump steer/roll center correction kit for the front. This should cover every single bushing and ball joint on the car.
My question is, would I benefit greatly from also getting the rear bump steer kit or am I ok getting a non offset bushing?
My Evo IX is about to hit 155k and I was looking into refreshing all the suspension bushings. This is my daily and it will see maybe 3 track days in a year. I'm currently saving for the Ohlin's coil overs, hopefully in the next few months they will be in the car. Currently on some low mileage OEM KYB struts (bought used), Swift Sport springs and a whiteline rear sway bar. I'll be ordering SuperPro bushings for the front and rear including their spherical bushing for the front, OEM spherical bushings for the rear lower control arms (4 total), febest or hardrace ball joints for the rear (6) and the whiteline bump steer/roll center correction kit for the front. This should cover every single bushing and ball joint on the car.
My question is, would I benefit greatly from also getting the rear bump steer kit or am I ok getting a non offset bushing?
Suspension refresh is a great idea and you may not even need aftermarket bushings. Fresh OEM's ones are ok too. I had the same setup as you for 35,000 miles (KYB struts with swift springs) before I threw on a set of decent coilovers. The difference is HUGE and you will feel it in both daily driving and track. Every corner in the car will be much more confidence inspiring and grippy. Good choice on saving for the Ohlins. I'll need a set one day.
May 22, 2019, 11:15 AM
#9
Im currently in the same situation as you...wanting to refresh the suspension bushings on my Evo 130k tho. Don't forget about the rear diff mounts, not sure if your car clunks on hard shifts but that's the stock rubber carrier and mustache bar bushings. 
Jul 9, 2019, 11:38 AM
#10
So after waiting a few months, I finally have all the parts to completely redo all the bushings, oem spherical bushings and F/R ball joints. I ended up going with Hard Race rear ball joints, took a while to get. I'm also adding the whiteline front RCK since the car is lowered on swift springs.
I'll be installing everything this Saturday. I have a question and not sure if it matters or not. Should I be torqueing down the control arms at ride height so I don't put preload on the bushings? Would it be even possible to do at ground level since the car sits low? I don't have access to a lift. Thank you!
I'll be installing everything this Saturday. I have a question and not sure if it matters or not. Should I be torqueing down the control arms at ride height so I don't put preload on the bushings? Would it be even possible to do at ground level since the car sits low? I don't have access to a lift. Thank you!
Jul 9, 2019, 12:17 PM
#11
That arm, when torqued properly, should rotate freely along its articulation path. I would be concerned if it bound up anywhere along that arc
Heres the torque page. If you want the full section I can attach that if you need
Jul 15, 2019, 08:42 AM
#15
Well I got the rear done over the weekend, it was really time consuming but not all that bad. I had a late start Saturday and just finished last night lol. The only special tools I used were a harbor freight 12 ton press and ball joint separator, I just had to improvise and use different size sockets to match the size of the bushing or ball joint. I was not able to replace the front upper control arm bushing with the dogbone, I just couldn't get enough leverage on the arm as there is not a lot of material in that area and didn't want to bend the arm. That particular bushing seemed fine, it had no play whatsoever and it appeared to be bonded to the arm. I may revisit this and get it done, I think I might need to torch it off.
It was a good thing I did this because all the rear ball joints had a lot of play in them. I would also say the regular bushings and spherical bushings were very loose as well. Since the arms were coming off, I decided to give them a good wash and scrub with a scotch-brite pad, all the arms look good as new now. I will be doing the front this coming weekend and get an alignment shortly afterwards. For now I set the rear camber and toe right at 0 to keep it simple. After the arms were re-installed, I torqued everything down to spec while it was on jacks. I was a bit shocked and worried when I lowered the car back down. It almost looked like a 4x4 lol, the rear had 4 finger lengths between the fender and tire! After cleaning the garage and myself up, I decided to take if for a test drive. It seemed to have settled back to normal height after the short test drive so that was a relief.
In regard to driving impressions, It feels very locked in in the rear. Before the rear felt sloppy and would tend to wander/drift with any slight imperfection in the road, that is completely gone now. The rear definitely feels stiffer though but no noticeable increase in NVH. It's hard to explain but the rear feels like it's on rails now. One thing I noticed though is that it feels very bouncy in the rear, a lot more than before....almost like I increased spring rate or something. I think I'm going to try to loosen everything back up and torque everything back down at ride height. I'll be tackling the front this weekend and will report my findings.
It was a good thing I did this because all the rear ball joints had a lot of play in them. I would also say the regular bushings and spherical bushings were very loose as well. Since the arms were coming off, I decided to give them a good wash and scrub with a scotch-brite pad, all the arms look good as new now. I will be doing the front this coming weekend and get an alignment shortly afterwards. For now I set the rear camber and toe right at 0 to keep it simple. After the arms were re-installed, I torqued everything down to spec while it was on jacks. I was a bit shocked and worried when I lowered the car back down. It almost looked like a 4x4 lol, the rear had 4 finger lengths between the fender and tire! After cleaning the garage and myself up, I decided to take if for a test drive. It seemed to have settled back to normal height after the short test drive so that was a relief.
In regard to driving impressions, It feels very locked in in the rear. Before the rear felt sloppy and would tend to wander/drift with any slight imperfection in the road, that is completely gone now. The rear definitely feels stiffer though but no noticeable increase in NVH. It's hard to explain but the rear feels like it's on rails now. One thing I noticed though is that it feels very bouncy in the rear, a lot more than before....almost like I increased spring rate or something. I think I'm going to try to loosen everything back up and torque everything back down at ride height. I'll be tackling the front this weekend and will report my findings.
Last edited by u189961; Jul 15, 2019 at 10:15 AM.