Kenwood DNX-7140 not good for quality audio????
Jun 15, 2010, 11:30 AM
#1
Kenwood DNX-7140 not good for quality audio????
Ok guys... I really need your help on this one.
The car:
2008 Mitsubishi Evo X MR
My old setup:
Alpine CDA-9885
JL Audio G6600
CDT Audio CL61 Components
CDT Audio Neodymium 6.5s
No sub
My new set up:
Kenwood DNX-7140
JL Audio G6600
Exile XPe65 Components
Exile SX65c Coaxials
Polk MOMO 10"
Both set ups have the same wiring.
The Problem: I feel like there is no mid-bass on the new system.
The original set up had so much mid bass. It was clean, punchy, could feel it. The new set up feels like there isn't anything there. I've tried all different crossover points. I've tried turning crossovers off. I've tried disabling the sub. I've tried all types of different music. It just feels super weak.
I know how to set up my gains according to the pre-outs, so I know that is good. I've tried different frequencies for the crossovers on the amp.
My question is... could the Kenwood DNX-7140 with 2-volt pre-amps be the issue? To where the amp has to work that much harder to get clean audio out, that it's missing the mids? I was 100% satisfied before, now I'm not satisfied at all. Maybe the Alpine has more audio processing than the Kenwood.
I've heard that it's very difficult to get the double din Kenwood decks to produce quality audio. Is this true?
I know that spending ~$1200 on a deck and for it to not keep up with a $200 deck is very disappointing. I've been told these speakers crack, but I've only heard them on a boat which was breathtaking.
If anyone has any advice I'd really appreciate the input. Thanks in advance...
The car:
2008 Mitsubishi Evo X MR
My old setup:
Alpine CDA-9885
JL Audio G6600
CDT Audio CL61 Components
CDT Audio Neodymium 6.5s
No sub
My new set up:
Kenwood DNX-7140
JL Audio G6600
Exile XPe65 Components
Exile SX65c Coaxials
Polk MOMO 10"
Both set ups have the same wiring.
The Problem: I feel like there is no mid-bass on the new system.
The original set up had so much mid bass. It was clean, punchy, could feel it. The new set up feels like there isn't anything there. I've tried all different crossover points. I've tried turning crossovers off. I've tried disabling the sub. I've tried all types of different music. It just feels super weak.
I know how to set up my gains according to the pre-outs, so I know that is good. I've tried different frequencies for the crossovers on the amp.
My question is... could the Kenwood DNX-7140 with 2-volt pre-amps be the issue? To where the amp has to work that much harder to get clean audio out, that it's missing the mids? I was 100% satisfied before, now I'm not satisfied at all. Maybe the Alpine has more audio processing than the Kenwood.
I've heard that it's very difficult to get the double din Kenwood decks to produce quality audio. Is this true?
I know that spending ~$1200 on a deck and for it to not keep up with a $200 deck is very disappointing. I've been told these speakers crack, but I've only heard them on a boat which was breathtaking.
If anyone has any advice I'd really appreciate the input. Thanks in advance...
Jun 15, 2010, 12:04 PM
#2
migs kenwood has some of the best DSP on the market. i have the 9140 myself and theres no way your alpine was better than it.
you might know already i'm a professional installer , but you don't have to take my word for it if you don't want to. i can almost gaurantee you it's your speakers that are the problem.
i took a look online at your exiles and it has to be one of the off-brands that there are so many of. also just looking at the shallow-mount setup of it most likely fails at any midrange.
try stepping up to the alpine type R's. i dont know what you paid for your exiles, but a type R has some of the best midrange ever, for the price. you do need 1/2" spacers and to cut the triangular hole on the car out a little wider so the magnet can get through, and have window clearance, but if you dont feel comfortable doing that yourself have a pro do it.
oh, i am not from the couv like you may have originally thought...
you might know already i'm a professional installer , but you don't have to take my word for it if you don't want to. i can almost gaurantee you it's your speakers that are the problem.
i took a look online at your exiles and it has to be one of the off-brands that there are so many of. also just looking at the shallow-mount setup of it most likely fails at any midrange.
try stepping up to the alpine type R's. i dont know what you paid for your exiles, but a type R has some of the best midrange ever, for the price. you do need 1/2" spacers and to cut the triangular hole on the car out a little wider so the magnet can get through, and have window clearance, but if you dont feel comfortable doing that yourself have a pro do it.
oh, i am not from the couv like you may have originally thought...
Last edited by lancerarmstrong; Jun 15, 2010 at 12:08 PM.
Jun 15, 2010, 12:24 PM
#3
Thanks for the reply...
But you're hugely mistaken about Exile. Exile is competition speakers. They are the original Phoenix Gold guys that sold Phoenix Gold when it went mainstream and built up Exile. Exile, CDT Audio, Mcintosh, Nakamichi, Diamond Audio, Focal, all are in the same class. Exile is very high end, but it is a new company. I am almost positive it is not the speakers.
And yes, they are shallow mount just like my CDT Audio Neodymiums were.
http://woofersetc.com/p5831/CLE61NEO...t-Speakers.htm
Those are the ones I had in my car before. And believe me they had more mid than my ears could handle. Neodymiums can produce plenty of mid. And the Exile XPE65's are Neodymium as well. Most companies are producing slim mounts for their higher end now (infiniti kappa comes to mind off of the top of my head).
Alpine is good and all, but they don't have the crispness that I've found in the higher end speakers.
But you're hugely mistaken about Exile. Exile is competition speakers. They are the original Phoenix Gold guys that sold Phoenix Gold when it went mainstream and built up Exile. Exile, CDT Audio, Mcintosh, Nakamichi, Diamond Audio, Focal, all are in the same class. Exile is very high end, but it is a new company. I am almost positive it is not the speakers.
And yes, they are shallow mount just like my CDT Audio Neodymiums were.
http://woofersetc.com/p5831/CLE61NEO...t-Speakers.htm
Those are the ones I had in my car before. And believe me they had more mid than my ears could handle. Neodymiums can produce plenty of mid. And the Exile XPE65's are Neodymium as well. Most companies are producing slim mounts for their higher end now (infiniti kappa comes to mind off of the top of my head).
Alpine is good and all, but they don't have the crispness that I've found in the higher end speakers.
Jun 15, 2010, 01:28 PM
#4
I know from a specs pov the 9140 and the 7140 aren't that different. But I'm wondering if there really is a big difference between the 9140 and 7140 inside. I know it's just a naming thing, but the 9140 gets the Excelon branding and the 7140 doesn't. 2volt vs 4volt pre-amps. I'm wondering if the 9140 gets some extra processing going on, especially from the iPod connection. What do you think?
I'm very tempted to take this 7140 back and get a 91x0 or a Pioneer Z1x0bt.
Jun 15, 2010, 01:51 PM
#5
phoenix gold stuff now days is total crap compared to what they used to make. thats why i havent paid any attention to them.
are you sure you didn't do something wrong with your wiring? that kenwood you have should be wayyy better than your previous setup
are you sure you didn't do something wrong with your wiring? that kenwood you have should be wayyy better than your previous setup
Jun 15, 2010, 02:03 PM
#6
I just found out today that Morgan actually just went back to Phoenix Gold and started from scratch on design for their 2011 equipment. I guess they didn't make anything for 2010 because the quality and reputation had gone down so much. I guess some of the stuff from the 2011 phoenix gold amps matches the Exile amps matches spec for spec.
are you sure you didn't do something wrong with your wiring? that kenwood you have should be wayyy better than your previous setup
The Alpine CDA-9885 isn't a slouch. I know a guy that was pushing 158 with one. I put the deck in my truck with a lame power acoustics amp on factory speakers, and it produces better mids.
But without comparing it to the old deck, how does it compare to the higher end kenwood?
Jun 15, 2010, 05:09 PM
#7
ok then how are you tuning your audio at your headunit? your 7140 surpasses the 9885 by far, i have one sitting on my desk right next to me that used to be in my mercury...
whats the frequency response of your speakers if you dont mind me asking? x-over slope/curve?
whats the frequency response of your speakers if you dont mind me asking? x-over slope/curve?
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Jun 15, 2010, 07:20 PM
#8
ok then how are you tuning your audio at your headunit? your 7140 surpasses the 9885 by far, i have one sitting on my desk right next to me that used to be in my mercury...
whats the frequency response of your speakers if you dont mind me asking? x-over slope/curve?
whats the frequency response of your speakers if you dont mind me asking? x-over slope/curve?
The XPe65's are 60Hz -> 20kHz. Crossover slope is 24dB acoustical. SPL is 90dB. RMS is 125watts.
The SX65c (which are brand new and I have the very first set) are 80Hz -> 20kHz. Crossover slope is 18dB acoustical. SPL is 91dB. RMS is 100watts.
Someone on Realm of Excursion told me to only run 1 set of crossovers, so I shut off my crossovers (except sub) on the amp, and am just using the deck now. I have mids again.
Fronts: 80Hz @ -6db
Rears: 70Hz @ -12db
Sub: 120Hz @ -18db
I'm going to roll with this for a while and see how I like it. So far it's good. The only thing I hate is that because my gains are set for the 2volt pre-amps, I have to turn it to around 25 before I start feeling much. And it starts clipping at 30.
I'm really debating if I should go get a 9140 / 9160 instead of this 7140. Can anyone chime in if it's worth the upgrade? I have 4 more days to take back this 7140.
Jun 15, 2010, 08:38 PM
#9
ok sounds like you turned your amp setting to let all pass. if that's the case and it sounds better i wonder if there would be something wierd going on with your amp?
i think 70hz is a good hpf but it really depends on the speaker, you want it turned to just the right frequency above where it just starts to make that popping, but if you measure it with an oscilloscope you can get it tuned perfectly. looks like you've done a little research on tuning and it does look like you have it all tuned well.
you may not know this but when you actually start to hear the speaker clip, it has already actually been physically clipping for 20%, that's why it's best to visually see it clip with an o-scope.
i'm not familiar with the 7140 as much as my 9140, but the 9140 has a 15 band graphic eq, 5v preouts, 6-24db/octave crossover slope adjustment for front, rear, and sub, DTA and a few others i might be missing. you can adjust each 15 bands for the front, and rear seperately too. i was getting the best sound ive ever heard in my 7 year install career with that when i had it in my gts a few months back.
do this for perfect tuning: rent or buy an o-scope and a tuning cd with sine waves, turn your headunit auto up as loud as it will go (rca's unplugged), and measure each rca channel with the scope to understand when your deck starts to send out a clipped signal and at what frequencies (at which volume level too), this means you never want to go at or above that level or it will send a clipped signal to the amp, which will obviously amplify that clipped audio signal
next plug one set of rca's into your amp at a time and turn your headunit down all the way to 0. turn your amp gain all the way up to the corresponding channel and measure the output-side (amplified) with your o-scope. you may need to turn your deck up a little to see a signal on your scope. turn the gain down until your signal on the scope isn't clipped anymore for that corresponding channel. of course you'll want to play the frequencies for which channel you're measuring... so if you're tuing your sub you'll want to play the 0-200hz part and watch for clipping.
i may have left out some minor details but that is the basics on tuning an amp straight out of my mecp masters guide.
maybe i should do a write up for tuning audio, but then i'd never see a lancer at my work again
i think 70hz is a good hpf but it really depends on the speaker, you want it turned to just the right frequency above where it just starts to make that popping, but if you measure it with an oscilloscope you can get it tuned perfectly. looks like you've done a little research on tuning and it does look like you have it all tuned well.
you may not know this but when you actually start to hear the speaker clip, it has already actually been physically clipping for 20%, that's why it's best to visually see it clip with an o-scope.
i'm not familiar with the 7140 as much as my 9140, but the 9140 has a 15 band graphic eq, 5v preouts, 6-24db/octave crossover slope adjustment for front, rear, and sub, DTA and a few others i might be missing. you can adjust each 15 bands for the front, and rear seperately too. i was getting the best sound ive ever heard in my 7 year install career with that when i had it in my gts a few months back.
do this for perfect tuning: rent or buy an o-scope and a tuning cd with sine waves, turn your headunit auto up as loud as it will go (rca's unplugged), and measure each rca channel with the scope to understand when your deck starts to send out a clipped signal and at what frequencies (at which volume level too), this means you never want to go at or above that level or it will send a clipped signal to the amp, which will obviously amplify that clipped audio signal
next plug one set of rca's into your amp at a time and turn your headunit down all the way to 0. turn your amp gain all the way up to the corresponding channel and measure the output-side (amplified) with your o-scope. you may need to turn your deck up a little to see a signal on your scope. turn the gain down until your signal on the scope isn't clipped anymore for that corresponding channel. of course you'll want to play the frequencies for which channel you're measuring... so if you're tuing your sub you'll want to play the 0-200hz part and watch for clipping.
i may have left out some minor details but that is the basics on tuning an amp straight out of my mecp masters guide.
maybe i should do a write up for tuning audio, but then i'd never see a lancer at my work again
Last edited by lancerarmstrong; Jun 15, 2010 at 08:42 PM.
Jun 15, 2010, 10:18 PM
#11
Yah the 7140 has all of those features, except it's a 5 band eq, and can only adjust it for all sound. Same slope range as well.
I agree about setting it with a oscilloscope. I didn't realize that the deck was already clipping 20% by the time you heard it. Interesting.
I actually used a voltmeter and used JL Audio's method
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/gainSetting.pdf but using my amp's document http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/G-Series/G6600_MAN.pdf for the correct voltage.
I still need to play with the frequencies on the deck's crossovers, but at least I made some progress. Now to find out if I should go to the 9140 / 9160 or not.
I agree about setting it with a oscilloscope. I didn't realize that the deck was already clipping 20% by the time you heard it. Interesting.
I actually used a voltmeter and used JL Audio's method
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/gainSetting.pdf but using my amp's document http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/G-Series/G6600_MAN.pdf for the correct voltage.
I still need to play with the frequencies on the deck's crossovers, but at least I made some progress. Now to find out if I should go to the 9140 / 9160 or not.
Jun 15, 2010, 10:21 PM
#12
What makes you say this? From my understanding, the only advantage of higher volt pre-outs is less interference (currently don't have any), and able to set the gains lower (to match the pre-out voltage). This in turn allows the user to have higher volume, but in turn lose range. 4 volt may be 1-15 to match a 2 volt 1-27. Does this matter?
I'm not calling you out, just want more clarification. And if the 2-volt is a very big deal, I'd like to know so I can return this deck and get a 9140 / 9160 asap (have 5 days left to return).
I'm not calling you out, just want more clarification. And if the 2-volt is a very big deal, I'd like to know so I can return this deck and get a 9140 / 9160 asap (have 5 days left to return).
Jun 16, 2010, 06:11 AM
#13
well technically the lower preout voltage doesn't effect midrange by itself, it effects the amplitude of the sound as a whole.
does your amp have a high/low voltage input setting? if memory serves me right the 9885 is 4v preout while all the other alpines are still 2. a 5 band graphic eq is still great, but there are a few other audio adjustments i know the 9140 had that the 7140 didnt that i forget. i'll have to grab it out of my box later (its waiting its X in there). oh the GUI system is a lot different too... it also has the 2010 garmin maps, gui... not sure if the 7140 does.
migs how old are you? i think i have seen you around here before... down on OR43. is yours the one with the crooked dual exhaust?
does your amp have a high/low voltage input setting? if memory serves me right the 9885 is 4v preout while all the other alpines are still 2. a 5 band graphic eq is still great, but there are a few other audio adjustments i know the 9140 had that the 7140 didnt that i forget. i'll have to grab it out of my box later (its waiting its X in there). oh the GUI system is a lot different too... it also has the 2010 garmin maps, gui... not sure if the 7140 does.
migs how old are you? i think i have seen you around here before... down on OR43. is yours the one with the crooked dual exhaust?
Last edited by lancerarmstrong; Jun 16, 2010 at 06:14 AM.
Jun 16, 2010, 07:28 AM
#14
well technically the lower preout voltage doesn't effect midrange by itself, it effects the amplitude of the sound as a whole.
does your amp have a high/low voltage input setting? if memory serves me right the 9885 is 4v preout while all the other alpines are still 2. a 5 band graphic eq is still great, but there are a few other audio adjustments i know the 9140 had that the 7140 didnt that i forget. i'll have to grab it out of my box later (its waiting its X in there). oh the GUI system is a lot different too... it also has the 2010 garmin maps, gui... not sure if the 7140 does.
migs how old are you? i think i have seen you around here before... down on OR43. is yours the one with the crooked dual exhaust?
does your amp have a high/low voltage input setting? if memory serves me right the 9885 is 4v preout while all the other alpines are still 2. a 5 band graphic eq is still great, but there are a few other audio adjustments i know the 9140 had that the 7140 didnt that i forget. i'll have to grab it out of my box later (its waiting its X in there). oh the GUI system is a lot different too... it also has the 2010 garmin maps, gui... not sure if the 7140 does.
migs how old are you? i think i have seen you around here before... down on OR43. is yours the one with the crooked dual exhaust?
. I didn't realize the 9140 had the 2010 maps since they were just released in may. Sure you don't mean the 9160?Right on the pre-amps not affecting midrange, i was just wondering if it was worth the upgrade for total quality.
No, my X still has stock exhaust. I'll be picking up a Perrin very very soon.
Nevermind... the 9160 I keep mentioning is a 9960?
Last edited by migs647; Jun 16, 2010 at 07:56 AM.
Jun 16, 2010, 01:03 PM
#15
yea the 9960 is the new version. i made a typo, and i meant the 9140 has the 2010 garmin GUI interface, which is more cartoony, but much quicker than its predecessor which i think is on the 7140. Don't let your girlfriend fiddle with it because mine did and changed everything to french; it was too easy for her to figure out.
i saw a GG X with some of that exhaust which makes me hurl and thought it could have potentially been yours; it's the kind where each exhaust is angled out of the back. it's funny you say you're getting perrin exhaust, since on the exhaust threads the guy has an oregon plate who is demoing it. whenever i get an x in the next year i'm still stuck on ultimate racing.
anyways yea i think going to the 9960 would be a nice upgrade for you. the preout voltage allows you to set your gains lower on your amp, having cleaner audio. that is all really...
i saw a GG X with some of that exhaust which makes me hurl and thought it could have potentially been yours; it's the kind where each exhaust is angled out of the back. it's funny you say you're getting perrin exhaust, since on the exhaust threads the guy has an oregon plate who is demoing it. whenever i get an x in the next year i'm still stuck on ultimate racing.
anyways yea i think going to the 9960 would be a nice upgrade for you. the preout voltage allows you to set your gains lower on your amp, having cleaner audio. that is all really...