10% Ethanol
May 8, 2008, 01:35 PM
#1
10% Ethanol
OK, as of last month, all our local Shell stations use 10% ethanol in their fuel now. I have heard that the entire state is using 10% ethanol, but I have yet to see that verifcation in the form of a sticker on the pumps at other stations.
This becomes more interesting when we think about tuning. You have to assume to keep the (R+M)/2 to be 93 octane, that they are probably using lower octane "gasoline" fuel at the pre-ethanol mix. Ethanol is somewhere near 110 octane.
E85 (85% ethanol) at stoich is around 9.7:1. Gasoline at stoich is 14.7:1. Now it doesn't take rocket science to know that if you have nine parts 14.7:1 and one part 9.7:1, you would have a lower stoich AFR at around 14.2:1. Here come my questions: Would you map everything a tiny bit richer than you used to? Are there any concerns for closed loop fueling, or since the sensors read in lambda, will they automatically adjust to the correct new fueling level?
Thanks,
Seth
This becomes more interesting when we think about tuning. You have to assume to keep the (R+M)/2 to be 93 octane, that they are probably using lower octane "gasoline" fuel at the pre-ethanol mix. Ethanol is somewhere near 110 octane.
E85 (85% ethanol) at stoich is around 9.7:1. Gasoline at stoich is 14.7:1. Now it doesn't take rocket science to know that if you have nine parts 14.7:1 and one part 9.7:1, you would have a lower stoich AFR at around 14.2:1. Here come my questions: Would you map everything a tiny bit richer than you used to? Are there any concerns for closed loop fueling, or since the sensors read in lambda, will they automatically adjust to the correct new fueling level?
Thanks,
Seth
May 8, 2008, 01:44 PM
#2
OK, as of last month, all our local Shell stations use 10% ethanol in their fuel now. I have heard that the entire state is using 10% ethanol, but I have yet to see that verifcation in the form of a sticker on the pumps at other stations.
This becomes more interesting when we think about tuning. You have to assume to keep the (R+M)/2 to be 93 octane, that they are probably using lower octane "gasoline" fuel at the pre-ethanol mix. Ethanol is somewhere near 110 octane.
E85 (85% ethanol) at stoich is around 9.7:1. Gasoline at stoich is 14.7:1. Now it doesn't take rocket science to know that if you have nine parts 14.7:1 and one part 9.7:1, you would have a lower stoich AFR at around 14.2:1. Here come my questions: Would you map everything a tiny bit richer than you used to? Are there any concerns for closed loop fueling, or since the sensors read in lambda, will they automatically adjust to the correct new fueling level?
Thanks,
Seth
This becomes more interesting when we think about tuning. You have to assume to keep the (R+M)/2 to be 93 octane, that they are probably using lower octane "gasoline" fuel at the pre-ethanol mix. Ethanol is somewhere near 110 octane.
E85 (85% ethanol) at stoich is around 9.7:1. Gasoline at stoich is 14.7:1. Now it doesn't take rocket science to know that if you have nine parts 14.7:1 and one part 9.7:1, you would have a lower stoich AFR at around 14.2:1. Here come my questions: Would you map everything a tiny bit richer than you used to? Are there any concerns for closed loop fueling, or since the sensors read in lambda, will they automatically adjust to the correct new fueling level?
Thanks,
Seth
But i would like to use a 100% even if its cost $2 more, and have a less gas milage.
May 8, 2008, 02:26 PM
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On that note I just saw this. A possible alternative to us high octane gas guzzlers.
http://gizmodo.com/388542/microfuele...for-pre+orders
http://gizmodo.com/388542/microfuele...for-pre+orders
May 8, 2008, 02:36 PM
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On that note I just saw this. A possible alternative to us high octane gas guzzlers.
http://gizmodo.com/388542/microfuele...for-pre+orders
http://gizmodo.com/388542/microfuele...for-pre+orders
Someone said this on that link
"It will take between 10lbs to 14lbs of sugar to produce 1 gallon of ethanol."
Seems impractical if its true. You would have to store 140 pounds of sugar for just 10 gallons, which does not include the yeast.
May 8, 2008, 02:41 PM
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Just to let u guys know... my friend works at a Gas distrobution center... and EVERY SINGLE GASS STATION ADDS at least 10% if not more Ethanol to there gas!!.
its called an additive.. whether they notify u at the pumps or NOT ITS IN THERE!!!!
IM searious and 10000% positive and correct!
synocois the only gas station that has there own distobution center every other station goes to a universal distributer!!
its called an additive.. whether they notify u at the pumps or NOT ITS IN THERE!!!!
IM searious and 10000% positive and correct!
synocois the only gas station that has there own distobution center every other station goes to a universal distributer!!
May 8, 2008, 04:44 PM
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Just to let u guys know... my friend works at a Gas distrobution center... and EVERY SINGLE GASS STATION ADDS at least 10% if not more Ethanol to there gas!!.
its called an additive.. whether they notify u at the pumps or NOT ITS IN THERE!!!!
IM searious and 10000% positive and correct!
synocois the only gas station that has there own distobution center every other station goes to a universal distributer!!
its called an additive.. whether they notify u at the pumps or NOT ITS IN THERE!!!!
IM searious and 10000% positive and correct!
synocois the only gas station that has there own distobution center every other station goes to a universal distributer!!
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