hmmm, interesting. So if I got FIC 2150's the problem would go away? How would the 2150's on 93 OCT idle on a 2.2L?

 

according to Jens - yes!

Your idle AFR will be about 12.0:1

 

Has there been a response from FIC on this issue?
Dan

 

so the options are either use the 1300s and make whatever power they will, or jump to the 2000s and idle open loop?

 

Man this is crazy. I cannot begin say how happy I have been with these injectors (FIC1680)--they fire right up, no problems on long drives or in heavy traffic. No problems doing autoX (hot hot hot sit & wait...hot hot hot sit & wait...) or drag racing with extended idling in staging lanes. Maybe e85 keeps the fuel temperature low enough to not see this issue? Maybe its just a little bit cooler here in MN (mid 80's lately)?

 

You were the reason I was going to get them regardless of people having problems. But now that its a confirmed issue from the manufacturer I am sticking with my DW1300's.

I'd be curious to know as well.

 

I think how much it flares up depends a bit on the driving style. I was tuning 3dman1's Evo 10 in the dead of winter (30-50 deg temps) and still having problems getting the fuel trims under control. During a session, the idle trim would slowly go positive until it maxed out the trim range. I ended up with extremely low scaling values as well, lower than what I run for my FIC1100s.

Could be that not all sets of these injectors have this issue, e.g., maybe the wrong o-ring got used for a particular production run. I hope this is the case because these injectors definitely are perfect for many people if they can work right.

 

I have never seen this on my car, and I have another local friend with them, I don't think we saw that on his car either (TalonEvo--he has an IX).

My set is an older production run, they initially came with no spacers and the old-style EV1 adapters. FIC got me replacements (and new seals even) very quickly and the fitment issues I had were gone.

There's some up-close pics of mine in my gallery on page 16-18 if anyone is interested in comparing mine to theirs:
http://www.scheides.com/gallery/evoX?page=16

 

Acording to jens the 2150 and I'd 2000 are on the same body or at least the same style body as the 1680 injector. I am currious how upgrading to the 2000 size injectors could solve the issue here if they are built in the same way or on the same body?

 

yeah the 1680's are a longer body, but apart from that identical to the 2150's...

maybe the longer body means fuel sits around for longer IN the injector...

shorter body means the fuel is more quickly replaced with cooler fuel...

dunno...

I mean even for me, with a 2.5L, 2150cc/min is going to be too much... UNLESS I run E85, which I probably wont be...

Actually thats probably what I WILL do, tune on E85 to get my latencies worked out, then when I swap back to pump I will just run rich openloop idle... OR dial the pressure right down...

 

honestly I haven't driven the car enough to know... though DB never said there was an issue. I drove them over the winter here (which I don't know if that counts due to the cold), mainly on E85, only about 3 tanks of 93 pump.

Would like to know for sure if FIC is offering an upgrade on these.

 

I was thinking about this as well and if you look at the structure of the 2 fuels E85 contains more oxygen and moisture. It's naturally less prone to heat absorption than regular pump gas. It's like aluminum vs carbon steel

The injectors are the same construction but for whatever reason they haven't seen the same issues with the 2000's. I would imagine it's because the sheer size of the injector it closing off helps at idle and there is probably only 1-2 cars using it's full capacity on pump gas.

 

I think it's just that E85 requires more flow, so the injectors see more fresh (ie cooler) fuel which intern keeps the body cooler.

OBVIOUSLY the design (Not ID OR FIC's fault) is not ideal to begin with...

Jens said the 2150's are a SHORTER body.. So less standing fuel in it = quicker refresh = my guess...

 

Jens said he will deal with everyone on a case by case basis.. But he also said to me that he will upgrade anyone with issues to the 2150's...

 

very good...

I will contact my tuner and see what he says and what I need to look for.