Ralliart188

Just got my FE evo not long ago but now I see a post going around saying that Mitsubishi screwed up the tune on them?


I hope my brand new car doesn't blow up on me

Ev0ikon

iTrader: (18)

Keep your warranty paper and boost on. If you want peace of mind then spend the money on a good tuner.
It may be a bit rich and timing maybe on the conservative side from the factory but I don't think it's a "screwed up" tune.

evo8426

iTrader: (27)

Just because it shows as leaner on the map doesn't mean it is leaner in real life performance. The posting of that shop seems unprofessional and potentially doesn't have a clue as to what they are doing themselves.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

Thats assuming the standard X already runs an ideal 11.5 afr at WOT, which they don't. They're deep in the 10's...lol. Sounds like that shop is fairly ignorant, and are throwing around big words and some fear mongering to drum up business.


The map is about .3-.4 leaner, which if you ran the maps back to back, would likely yield a .25-.5 difference in AFR on the gauge. You're car is not going to blow up.

Justnii

The target map is not he only map effecting fuel. You are fine.

Ralliart188

Thanks for the info guys, apparently someone already sent in an inquiry to headquarters. Hopefully Mitsubishi will clarify.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

They're going to say it's fine.

UT_EvoX

Just sharing some facts here, and a copy of what I posted on my Facebook page as a response to some pot shots at my reputation that were stated as a result of my warning post.

To directly address a claim made in this thread that it's only set 0.3-0.4 AFR leaner this is absolutely incorrect. The load path of the Evo X takes it directly through a region @ around 180 load where it is set 12 percent leaner (9.8 AFR vs. 10.94 AFR) than the regular 2015 GSR.

This is not taking into account the lean spool enleanment logic that is still at play around 5500 RPM. Lean spool is fully enabled on the 2015 FE ROM.


Here is my original reply:

A little follow up on the Mitsubishi's 2015 Final Edition mapping after some scrutiny and defamatory remarks against my reputation regarding what I shared in this post:

Not only do I have zero reason as a professional tuner and well-known figure in the Evo X world to lie about something I have found, I also have little or no potential gain from the small number of Final Edition owners that may approach me for a tune (and were probably going to get a tune anyway).
In fact, I care so little about making money off my discovery, I offer FOR FREE a corrected map to any 2015 Final Edition owner who is concerned about his or her car.
In addition, here are two logs that a customer took for me on his 100% stock 2015 FE Evo X: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sn3yaek7ha...34.28.csv?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i11ylu435l...36.47.csv?dl=0

As you can see, there is a point where boost is over 17 PSI, target AFR is 11.4 (which any Evo X tuner knows is damn close to what you'll actually see given the X's tight fueling model from the factory), and timing advance is 18 deg BTDC @ 5800 RPM.

Any knowledgeable tuner knows this is unsafe for operation on pump gas due to the overly aggressive placement of PCP and resulting fast burn speed from the lean mixture. The prior model year would have run much richer AFR.

You might also note from the logs that not a whole lot of knock sum is present, which an amateur tuner may think is OK, but really it just indicates a very volatile condition where a tune set well beyond the limits of 91 AKI pump gas could experience a detonation event of such magnitude that the knock control system may not be able to save the engine from serious damage.

And yes, the reason target AFR is even leaner than the High Octane Fuel Map is because of lean spool enleanment, which is still enabled on the 2015 FE ROM despite the leaner target AFR map.

UT_EvoX

And to boil it down into a single statement that holds irrefutably true: no competent tuner would ever lean a car out 12% without adjusting timing advance or boost pressure. Period.

The 2015 FE map only has two changes from 2015 USDM Evo X GSR: high octane target AFR, and throttle response curves. That's it, and that's what makes it a haphazard adjustment.

UT_EvoX

And, as promised, a safe version of the 2015 Final Edition Evo X ROM: https://www.dropbox.com/s/u0fmaho7xu...20ROM.zip?dl=0

Included are the two XML definitions you'll need to open the ROM file in EcuFlash. Mode23 logging is also enabled as a convenience factor. The ONLY change on this map is reverting to the normal 2015 GSR target AFR map.

Any person familiar with EcuFlash and who possesses a Tactrix 2.0 cable can load this map for you as an interim fix.

The 52680002 ROM ID is in fact what was read off of this 100% stock 2015 FE by my customer, which strikes me odd as it resembles the 2008 GSR ROM ID prefix, but it didn't take long for me to discover the underlying memory model was based on the 2015 GSR (which you'll see is the second XML def file included in the ZIP).

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

1-2 counts of knock is not a big deal. And the Evo has very good knock control. Hell, in both logs you can see it pull timing 1-2-3* to control the little bit of knock that is occurring, and it is very effective. In one spot, you see it try to add timing back in because the knock has decayed some, the knock persists for 2 more log points, and it pulls the timing back out. It's doing exactly what it's supposed to do. Use good fuel and it'll be fine.


When my 8 was stock, it would regularly see 3-4 counts of knock on the stock tune on 91 octane. I still think your scaring people about a "problem" that doesn't really exist. And encouraging people to void their warranty with a reflash. If someone isn't looking for performance eenhancment, they should not be reflashing their car, all they're doing is voiding the warranty. You know, the warranty that will cover a blown motor.

UT_EvoX

Did you even read through everything I posted?

GSXRiderK6

If he is scaring people into a tune, which you are claiming, why would he be offering a free open source fix for the issue? How is 3-4 counts of knock OK? Why are you comparing an VIII tuning strategy to a X? How is making this table more conservative going to blow a motor?

UT_EvoX

I'm not just some random moron trying to get attention. Damn near 300 Evo X's tuned at this point, mostly very high specific output E85 cars.

Plenty of tunes that don't knock (the 4B11T is VERY detonation resistant) blow engines for various reasons. As I stated, the knock control system isn't fast enough to protect from a prominent and serious series of detonation events, which is exactly what you get when the engine is calibrated WAY BEYOND the limits of your fuel.

If any supposed Evo tuner ran this timing profile and burn ratio on a car on pump gas, they would be chased away with pitchforks and knives. But it's OK if Mitsubishi does it?

The only difference between the burn ratio and AFR curve presented on this factory mapping and an optimal E85 (you know, that magical highly-detonation-resistant and heavily cooling fuel) tune is the factory one runs about 5 PSI less boost at 6000 RPM and peak torque, and about 4 PSI less up top.

Again, there were no other changes to the mapping. It wasn't a calculated and responsible change, and the engine obviously was not recalibrated on an engine dyno with these changes. It's like they handed the car to some intern, told them that mid 11's is an optimal burn ratio curve, that all of the "pro tuners" out there do it, and he pressed the + + + key a few times on the fuel map here and there, and called it good.

This is the work of somebody who has NO CLUE that both timing advance and burn ratio affect the placement of PCP and what it can do to the likelihood and magnitude of detonation when it comes on.

Remember, knock sum tells you NOTHING about how bad the detonation event is (that is, the magnitude of the resulting secondary flame front from the unplanned combustion event). You can watch it snowball sometimes, and sometimes the following combustion events are clean, but none of what you have to say changes the fact that knock-free (if going by that metric alone and ignoring how the engine is actually performing, I consider 1-3 randomly placed and intermittent knock sum to be acceptable) tunes blow engines all the time.

EVOL ME

Well at least it has been brought to the attention of the owners and it is up to them on how they would like to proceed.

I do trust the more KNOWLEDGEABLE Evo gentleman out there, and I for one do believe UT is fully capable of standing toe to toe with the engineers at Mitsu.

I know of more instances than I can count where UT has gone out of his way to help a fellow Evo owner, as long as he isn't an A**.

Carry on, hope all works well for the FE owners.