Some of you guys say you have compressor surge, is it surging on throttle with load on the engine or off the throttle completely?

 

See previous post!

 

i have no surge, ive tuned it on mbc and 3 port... 3 port works great on the X..

cb

 

Could it be that my settings for somewhat aggressive Mivec tuning is trying to make too much boost too early? I'm starting to wonder if the Anti-surge port is even working as designed.

Ok I re-calibrated the numbers so that the old were in line with 38-39 lb/min flow and the Grams/sec formula in EvoScan is now (2.80*x) which may not be right but it is closer to accurate. Looks like I am also in the 47-48 lb/min flow range at 23.5 psi at the top end.

3rd gear pulls
- GT30 @ 25 psi @ 4000 tapering to 23.5 psi by 7000 (I'm upping the preload tomorrow)
- Stock Turbo @ 26 psi from 3500 to 5500 then tapers to 20 psi by 7000
RPM---GT30 Airflow--Stock Airflow
3500 ------ 115 ---------- 210
3750 ------ 157 ---------- 207
4000 ------ 213 ---------- 219
4250 ------ 241 ---------- 230
4500 ------ 244 ---------- 235
4750 ------ 252 ---------- 244
5000 ------ 258 ---------- 255
5250 ------ 274 ---------- 266
5500 ------ 286 ---------- 275
5750 ------ 300 ---------- 280
6000 ------ 305 ---------- 286
6250 ------ 316 ---------- 289
6500 ------ 333 ---------- 294
6750 ------ 342 ---------- 300
7000 ------ 347 ---------- 300
7250 ------ 353 ---------- -
7500 ------ 363 ---------- -

Work has been busy so that was just a pull on the way home, felt pretty strong considering the heat. I have the Mode23 logging now and was in the 250% load cells dropping to 230% at the rev limiter and boost logging is so very nice as well!

It got too busy after work so the wideband will have to wait until Saturday morning and after that is installed I'll really dial in the tune at 26 psi with minimal taper before the Dyno runs on Sunday. I guess we will find out very soon if this turbo can be made to work.

 

Is one turn about 1psi on the Forge with the spring you're running?

 

Well, that sucks.

 

Hard to say, on the stock turbo I was going up 1.5-2 psi with a full turn. Currently I'm at 1/2 turn preload and will try 1 full turn and see where that puts me. I have maybe a 1 psi boost spike right now so if I can remove most of that taper without doing more than a 2 psi spike I think it would be a good tradeoff.

Well let's not assume it's toast just yet, time for some bench racing:

If you notice the Airflow numbers they happen to line up very closely to the 290-300 WHP my car was making on a local Mustang Dyno so I'm not giving up hope yet. If you compare airflow numbers as a ratio then I could already be in the 350-360 whp range.

My stock turbo was doing 38-39 lbs/min airflow and that equated to ~ 380-390 crank HP at 3670 lbs with driver and was good for 12.4 @ 110-111 mph and revving it out 5500-7000 in the quarter mile.

The GT30 is managing 47-48 lb/min airflow so far or ~ 470-480 crank HP so potentially mid 11's at 117-118 mph is my best guess, assuming I keep the revs between 6500-8000 due to this turbo shifting the power band up about 1000 rpm's then the numbers seem to add up.

Between getting the boost to spike to 28 psi and then hold 26 psi to redline on pump gas as well as getting a dialed in tune I think it has the potential to get 380-400 whp out of a heartbreaker Mustang Dyno which wouldn't be all that bad considering no cams. That would be about 500-530 crank hp and good for low 11's at 120-122 mph. That's right around what Buschur's Evo X with a Dominator 2.0 and cams was doing on 25 psi and is the performance I'm aiming for with this turbo.

I guess we will see by Sunday what it can do.

 

After finally getting my AEM wideband wired up and logging I found that my plugs HAD to be causing the hessitation and bucking issues at higher boost levels. Turns out they were gapped for .030" which apparently is fine on the stock turbo but once you flow more air past them at higher boost levels and RPM's all deals are off! I gapped them down to .024" and got her on the Dyno. Check those PLUG GAPS!

First run the driver tried to go WOT in 3rd at 2000 RPM's and the car fell flat on it's face and went into Limp Mode. We tried a run with the SES light on and got around 320 whp. Boooooo... What is the fix for this scenario as the car detects that there isn't enough airflow or something and shuts down the party!? The work around was to ease into the throttle until he reached 3k.

I reset the battery and the second Dyno Day run I pulled this:

307 Torque (11.3 AFR, 24 psi, 10 degrees timing, and 245 g/s airflow @ 4500)
339 HP (10.8-10.9 AFR, 22 psi, 15 degrees timing, and 340 g/s airflow @ 7000)

I quickly checked the logs and decided it was safe to inch the boost up on the third run, I thought it was 2 psi but ended up being only 1 psi more:

306 Torque (10.6-10.7 AFR, 25 psi, 9 degrees timing, and 260 g/s airflow @ 4500)
317 HP (10.3-10.4 AFR, 23 psi, 12 degrees timing, and 364 g/s airflow @ 7000)

I'll post the dyno sheets tomorrow when I get to work but it just goes to show that even a 1 psi increase in boost can throw you into a different load cell area of your tune and REALLY screw you up! I lost 22 WHP because I was about .5 AFR richer and only had 12 degrees of timing even though the MAF was saying I flowed more air, totally bizzarre but it is what it is. I wanted to stay on the cautious side and richen up the car slightly as I moved more air. Time to dial this car in!

I plan on tweaking the 260% and 280% load cells to be closer if not the same as the 240% load cells and see where that gets me for knock and AFR's. I'm running rich enough that there is PLENTY of room on the table to improve these numbers making 360-380 WHP on this hearthbreaker MD very likely. I did some preliminary changes before leaving the shop and the car absolutely hauls on the highway at even the lower boost. It feels like mid 11's are a given with decent driving, low 11's will be something to work towards.

I also stumbled on the fact that my wastegate flapper catches on the edge of the O2 Downpipe gasket once in a while. I found this out while increasing my preload to 1 turn on the Forge WGA. Likely it's a good idea to take a die grinder or dremel and remove any lip that would extend into the flow path where the flapper is, one thing I forgot to verify even though it worked fine without the gasket when I test fit the pieces.

Stay tuned for a 26 psi dyno plot soon, hopefully I'll be back on STM's dyno again in a week or so to get this dialed in when more 1:1 dyno time is available.

 

sounds promising.... but honestly sounds like a crap ton of work to get this thing to work moderately well...

 

Yes it all sounds very frustrating ATM but don't forget that Rome wasn't built in a day and god knows how much collective time and money went into developing this Evo 10 .

I have the feeling that once the bugs are ironed out this turbo conversion is going to be very hard to beat in the GT30R's power/airflow range .

Once other issues are sorted it would be interesting to test back to back the regular GT3076R's compressor cover with this model specific one .

The answers must be out there , who's going to find them ?

Cheers A .

 

if the answers are out there....Then you would think the manufacturer would have them.... they have done bupkis, and have answered nothing.

This install and tune shouldnt be a puzzle.

 

On my 05 VIII, I lost roughly 20-25whp on DLL from 6 degrees of timing difference, A/F staying the same for the same load cell. Crazy what some tweaks to A/F and timing will do!

 

Indeed, now that I have a solid baseline going and the AFR's, boost, and knock logged in EvoScan I can go full bore and get some power! I'm betting Cams and/or upgraded Intake Manifold would really wake this combo up but I want to see how well I can tune it without changing anything else first.

I think it was evo400 from the UK that had similar taper on the top end so I'm going to go from 1 turn up to 2 turns on the Forge WGA next and see how that works. The more that I think about it the dual chamber flapper is quite large for an internal wastgate and the pressures trying to open it must really build up at higher flow rates. His graph also looked almost identical to mine so I'm on the right track here. If I ever take this turbo off the car again I'll consider porting the hotside smooth for better flow and leave the WG flow areas alone. I was scared to touch it due to the fact that if the turbo needed to be returned then modifying it would have made that a potential headache.

 

Sounds like this setup is 6mo+ away from being realistic for most people. I still fail to see how (at least with these numbers) this turbo is worth $700 more than FPRed/Dom2 and their proven performance. Garrett dropped the ball if I do say so myself.

 

You have room for timing and leaner AFR. With my latest tune (450 crank) I'm running 18 degrees at 7,000 with afr of 11.6:1 on my innovate at 230 load and 21.75 psi. This was tuned on dynodynamics dyno. Zero knock retard.