Gates311: FP Red Review
Nov 24, 2008, 09:25 PM
#1
Gates311: FP Red Review
Before heading out to Super Lap, I had a few things done to the car at AMS to make it a little more competitive. One of the mods was a Forced Performance FP Red turbo. I'm sure some of you have seen the dyno thread, but there's more to this turbo than the crazy power it puts out: (https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=381551)
First of all, it rocks
Secondly, it is the perfect turbo for a track car. When I found out I'd be able to get one before Super Lap I was so pumped! Being that it's a bolt-on turbo, I knew it'd be a little bit less stress trying to get it installed in such a time crunch. Once Chris and Arne from AMS sent me the early dyno #'s, I was super pumped, but also kinda scared that the car would be a handful on street tires.
Fast forward a few days after AMS got the car ready for battle......I was at Buttonwillow with the car and a whole new setup (more on that in another thread later this week). I went out there a few days earlier to get plenty of time to re-learn the car. It was seriously mindblowingly fast! I was so scared for the first session I didn't know what to do haha. The turbo spools so fast! After I calmed down and took the second session with some more caution and drove smooth it felt great. So much power...everywhere! I was expecting to really notice SOME lag with the Red, but there is no perceptible difference out there. Even at 35psi, it spools like a stock turbo...but it hits and pulls so hard and also holds boost so much better! Coming out of corners, shifting, wherever, it was awesome! After the first day, I was so pumped with my decision to go with the FP Red. It really is perfect.
+/-
Positive - Amazing power, imperceptible lag on track, stock looks, awesome reliability etc etc
Negative - None. It's that good.
Overall - I really couldn't be happier with the power of the car for the Street tires I ran. The FP Red and a 100% stock longblock stood up to 5 straight days of all out track abuse and took it like a champ (almost...2nd blows). For the few AMS bolt-on's the car has and the addition of the FP Red, the car is a BEAST. Seriously, 450whp at 32psi along with 4 AMS bolt-on's is crazy. Thank you Mitsu for the awesome 4B11T! I know alot of people were and still are very skeptical of the new engine, but in reality it's held up amazing this year, even with the 100+ added whp of the FP Red. Thank you Robert and everyone at Forced Performance for the amazing turbo. Evo X owners should jump all over this turbo. Seriously. www.ForcedPerformance.net <--- Go there.
Over the next few days (NASA Event and Evo vs STi) I took more time to learn the car and try to learn the track. When Super Lap came, I was pumped and pretty confident that I had a shot. Alas.....I lost by .05 to Nils....coincidentally another FP Red powered car! Nils drove great and deserved the win (I'll have another thread with more in depth coverage on the actual event and the rest of the setup later).
And here's a quote from a friend after I gave him a ride back home -
Thanks again! Let me know if you all have any questions about the Red, or my opinion on it, be glad to share.
Ryan
First of all, it rocks
Secondly, it is the perfect turbo for a track car. When I found out I'd be able to get one before Super Lap I was so pumped! Being that it's a bolt-on turbo, I knew it'd be a little bit less stress trying to get it installed in such a time crunch. Once Chris and Arne from AMS sent me the early dyno #'s, I was super pumped, but also kinda scared that the car would be a handful on street tires.
Fast forward a few days after AMS got the car ready for battle......I was at Buttonwillow with the car and a whole new setup (more on that in another thread later this week). I went out there a few days earlier to get plenty of time to re-learn the car. It was seriously mindblowingly fast! I was so scared for the first session I didn't know what to do haha. The turbo spools so fast! After I calmed down and took the second session with some more caution and drove smooth it felt great. So much power...everywhere! I was expecting to really notice SOME lag with the Red, but there is no perceptible difference out there. Even at 35psi, it spools like a stock turbo...but it hits and pulls so hard and also holds boost so much better! Coming out of corners, shifting, wherever, it was awesome! After the first day, I was so pumped with my decision to go with the FP Red. It really is perfect.
+/-
Positive - Amazing power, imperceptible lag on track, stock looks, awesome reliability etc etc
Negative - None. It's that good.
Overall - I really couldn't be happier with the power of the car for the Street tires I ran. The FP Red and a 100% stock longblock stood up to 5 straight days of all out track abuse and took it like a champ (almost...2nd blows). For the few AMS bolt-on's the car has and the addition of the FP Red, the car is a BEAST. Seriously, 450whp at 32psi along with 4 AMS bolt-on's is crazy. Thank you Mitsu for the awesome 4B11T! I know alot of people were and still are very skeptical of the new engine, but in reality it's held up amazing this year, even with the 100+ added whp of the FP Red. Thank you Robert and everyone at Forced Performance for the amazing turbo. Evo X owners should jump all over this turbo. Seriously. www.ForcedPerformance.net <--- Go there.
Over the next few days (NASA Event and Evo vs STi) I took more time to learn the car and try to learn the track. When Super Lap came, I was pumped and pretty confident that I had a shot. Alas.....I lost by .05 to Nils....coincidentally another FP Red powered car! Nils drove great and deserved the win (I'll have another thread with more in depth coverage on the actual event and the rest of the setup later).
And here's a quote from a friend after I gave him a ride back home -
I got a ride in BlackTrack/Ryan Gates' car with this turbo, and it was *very* impressive. I drive a FULLY bolted on evo8 w/ IX turbo, E85, alky, cams, ported everything, and this thing would smoke my car. The spool-up, boost threshold, and transient boost is so close to stock it is really really really really really impressive that this thing makes 450+ dynojet whp w/o breaking a sweat.
Ryan
Last edited by BlackTrack; Nov 24, 2008 at 09:34 PM.
Nov 24, 2008, 09:43 PM
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I'm still a lil skeptical about the "imperceptible" lag with the FP red. looking at the graph you posted:
at around 3600 rpm, the stock turbo is actually producing approximately 40hp and 50torque MORE than the FP red. and in fact all the way up till 4000rpm, the FP red is slower than the stock turbo! I'm concerned the FP red might actually make the car feel slower in regular non-racing speeds..
and you're telling me 40hp and 50torque is imperceptible? *scratches head*
at around 3600 rpm, the stock turbo is actually producing approximately 40hp and 50torque MORE than the FP red. and in fact all the way up till 4000rpm, the FP red is slower than the stock turbo! I'm concerned the FP red might actually make the car feel slower in regular non-racing speeds..
and you're telling me 40hp and 50torque is imperceptible? *scratches head*
Last edited by ablaze; Nov 24, 2008 at 09:48 PM.
Nov 24, 2008, 09:54 PM
#4
I'm still a lil skeptical about the "imperceptible" lag with the FP red. looking at the graph you posted:
at around 3600 rpm, the stock turbo is actually producing approximately 40hp and 50torque MORE than the FP red. and in fact all the way up till 4000rpm, the FP red is slower than the stock turbo! I'm concerned the FP red might actually make the car feel slower in regular non-racing speeds..
and you're telling me 40hp and 50torque is imperceptible? *scratches head*
at around 3600 rpm, the stock turbo is actually producing approximately 40hp and 50torque MORE than the FP red. and in fact all the way up till 4000rpm, the FP red is slower than the stock turbo! I'm concerned the FP red might actually make the car feel slower in regular non-racing speeds..
and you're telling me 40hp and 50torque is imperceptible? *scratches head*
Last edited by BlackTrack; Nov 24, 2008 at 09:56 PM.
Nov 25, 2008, 04:19 AM
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Nov 25, 2008, 04:43 AM
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I'm still a lil skeptical about the "imperceptible" lag with the FP red. looking at the graph you posted:
at around 3600 rpm, the stock turbo is actually producing approximately 40hp and 50torque MORE than the FP red. and in fact all the way up till 4000rpm, the FP red is slower than the stock turbo! I'm concerned the FP red might actually make the car feel slower in regular non-racing speeds..
and you're telling me 40hp and 50torque is imperceptible? *scratches head*
at around 3600 rpm, the stock turbo is actually producing approximately 40hp and 50torque MORE than the FP red. and in fact all the way up till 4000rpm, the FP red is slower than the stock turbo! I'm concerned the FP red might actually make the car feel slower in regular non-racing speeds..
and you're telling me 40hp and 50torque is imperceptible? *scratches head*
Later, Ken
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Nov 25, 2008, 06:14 AM
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There is a difference in lag yes. I can feel the difference in everyday driving if caught below 3000 RPM. The stock turbo shrugs it off and gets into boost immediately. The Red needs more time and usually faster just to downshift a gear but I prefer it so that I don't go into boost ALL the time like I did with the stock one. I'm sure with all the supporting mods and a set of cams, the Red will do very very well on pump or race gas. I too prefer the 4B11 to the older 4G63 motor. Just seems to work far more efficiently and the MIVEC really helps minimize lag.
Nov 25, 2008, 06:57 AM
#10
Hey Ryan, funny that you're quoting me LOL! Here's another one to add to your barrage of quotes about this turbo:
I've daily driven DSM's with Hahn Super 20G's, 35R's. I've ridden in a 40R 700whp Evo. All feel laggy with high boost thresholds and long pauses after stepping on the gas at higher rpms. I've also driven my Evo8 and swapped in an IX turbo, and to me I perceived no lag difference between the two. I've also driven a modded stock turbo X. Ryan's Evo X with the FP RED honestly felt like a stock IX turbo to me, but with a solid 60-80whp added. When you're putsing along and then decide its go time the thing freaking hauls ***. Instantly. No, we did not do WOT @ 2000rpms to do full boost onset comparison tests. Those tests usually prove nothing. Lots of turbos will build boost down low, often none will go anywhere until after 3000rpms. But, even down there the turbo felt responsive and felt like it could do what I'd ask of it if I needed it.
I've daily driven DSM's with Hahn Super 20G's, 35R's. I've ridden in a 40R 700whp Evo. All feel laggy with high boost thresholds and long pauses after stepping on the gas at higher rpms. I've also driven my Evo8 and swapped in an IX turbo, and to me I perceived no lag difference between the two. I've also driven a modded stock turbo X. Ryan's Evo X with the FP RED honestly felt like a stock IX turbo to me, but with a solid 60-80whp added. When you're putsing along and then decide its go time the thing freaking hauls ***. Instantly. No, we did not do WOT @ 2000rpms to do full boost onset comparison tests. Those tests usually prove nothing. Lots of turbos will build boost down low, often none will go anywhere until after 3000rpms. But, even down there the turbo felt responsive and felt like it could do what I'd ask of it if I needed it.
Nov 25, 2008, 06:59 AM
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I'm still a lil skeptical about the "imperceptible" lag with the FP red. looking at the graph you posted:
at around 3600 rpm, the stock turbo is actually producing approximately 40hp and 50torque MORE than the FP red. and in fact all the way up till 4000rpm, the FP red is slower than the stock turbo! I'm concerned the FP red might actually make the car feel slower in regular non-racing speeds..
and you're telling me 40hp and 50torque is imperceptible? *scratches head*
at around 3600 rpm, the stock turbo is actually producing approximately 40hp and 50torque MORE than the FP red. and in fact all the way up till 4000rpm, the FP red is slower than the stock turbo! I'm concerned the FP red might actually make the car feel slower in regular non-racing speeds..
and you're telling me 40hp and 50torque is imperceptible? *scratches head*
The minimal difference in spool and slight loss in HP / TQ during a tiny 1500 RPM (usable) range is an awesome trade off for the extra 50 to 100 HP available for the 3500 RPMs where acceleration really matters.
Nov 25, 2008, 07:01 AM
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Uhh, dude, thats the torque curve your looking at. I think you were confused with where the new torque curve crosses the old power curve. FPRed torque and power are the red lines, stock turbo torque and power are the blue lines.
Nov 25, 2008, 07:02 AM
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I think you might be reading the chart wrong. The red lines are HP and TQ for the FP Red, the blue lines are HP and TQ from the stock turbo. The Red makes more HP and TQ than the stock turbo from 4100 to redline!
Nov 25, 2008, 07:07 AM
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I think your reading a bit too much into the dyno chart. While what you say is true at that specific RPM, you have to realize that this is a static chart and the car is operated dynamically. You are not sitting at that specific RPM feeling the difference in TQ, but actually climbing through the RPM range. You find the equal TQ just 2/300 RPMs later with more HP to boot. 2/300 RPMs is an extremely short time with the funky gearing of the X. I can see why Ryan would say there is no perceptible difference in spool.
The minimal difference in spool and slight loss in HP / TQ during a tiny 1500 RPM (usable) range is an awesome trade off for the extra 50 to 100 HP available for the 3500 RPMs where acceleration really matters.
The minimal difference in spool and slight loss in HP / TQ during a tiny 1500 RPM (usable) range is an awesome trade off for the extra 50 to 100 HP available for the 3500 RPMs where acceleration really matters.
