Evo X E85 Conversion How To & Discussion
Great write up!
I'm in the process of getting my Blaqops Double pump kit installed together with the TTP HIAG 2400cc Injectors.
35PSI on the RED on E85 should get very interesting.
I'm in the process of getting my Blaqops Double pump kit installed together with the TTP HIAG 2400cc Injectors.
35PSI on the RED on E85 should get very interesting.
Hardware
You're going to need some equipment:
Mandatory items:
Injectors: For a stock turbo car you might be able to get away with 800cc injectors. You might want to add some headroom and get 1000cc injectors. For big turbo cars, you need bigger still.
Fuel pump: You will need a new fuel pump. The walbro upgrade is common. If you have a big turbo you might need a double pumper.
You're going to need some equipment:
Mandatory items:
Injectors: For a stock turbo car you might be able to get away with 800cc injectors. You might want to add some headroom and get 1000cc injectors. For big turbo cars, you need bigger still.
Fuel pump: You will need a new fuel pump. The walbro upgrade is common. If you have a big turbo you might need a double pumper.
Injector Sizing Guide:
Based on E85 needing 35% more fueling at 90% injector duty cycles.
Code:
Crank HP --- 93 Oct ---- E85 - -- 400 ----- 583 cc --- 787 cc -- 450 ----- 657 cc --- 887 cc -- 500 ----- 730 cc --- 985 cc -- 550 ----- 803 cc --- 1084 cc -- 600 ----- 876 cc --- 1182 cc -- 650 ----- 949 cc --- 1281 cc -- 700 ----- 1022 cc -- 1379 cc -- 750 ----- 1095 cc -- 1478 cc -- 800 ----- 1168 cc -- 1576 cc
Fuel Pump Sizing Guide:
Based on E85 needing 35% more fueling and estimating fuel pump needs at the advertised base pressure rating. Obviously the lph flow will be at least 20% less at the fuel rail depending on boost levels for most fuel pumps.
Code:
Crank HP ---- 93 Oct ---- E85 -- -- 400 ----- 170 lph --- 230 lph -- 450 ----- 191 lph --- 259 lph -- 500 ----- 213 lph --- 287 lph -- 550 ----- 234 lph --- 316 lph -- 600 ----- 255 lph --- 345 lph -- 650 ----- 277 lph --- 373 lph -- 700 ----- 298 lph --- 402 lph -- 750 ----- 319 lph --- 431 lph -- 800 ----- 340 lph --- 460 lph
The 255 LPH Walbro fuel pump seems ok until 600 crank HP on pump and 450 crank HP on E85 so really only good for stock turbo E85 tunes at most.
Past that and you need to add an Inline Walbro pump in series which will likely support 700-750 crank HP on 93 octane and 500-550 crank HP on E85 from what I've researched.
Double pumper setups or 400 lph Fuel Lab single pumps should get you closer to 900-950 crank HP on 93 octane and 650-700 crank HP on E85. I would still use these as estimates since data on running those HP levels is still in relatively uncharted territory for the Evo X!
I've seen flow charts posted for Stock and Walbro fuel pumps at various fuel pressures but getting that data on a Stock pump with Walbro Inline in series vs a Double pumper vs a Fuel Lab 400 lph fuel pump would be a great test. Calling all vendors!
Last edited by Hiboost; Dec 24, 2009 at 08:06 AM.
There aren't a lot of injectors for the X above 1000 so most guys are going double pump and upping the pressure. That is good enough for the DW1000's to max a stock-size upgraded turbo, anyway.
I'm always skeptical when I hear about the AccessPort E85 tunes that use DW800 injectors. They can't possibly be making the power that some people are posting...the math doesn't work.
Last edited by mlomker; Dec 24, 2009 at 12:50 PM.
The DW folks have a handy calculator on their site...
http://www.deatschwerks.com/catalog/...alculators.php
Just one thing to keep in mind, peak horsepower and torque numbers have the WOW factor, but most cars spend probably 98% of the time with the injectors at far less than max duty cycle.
For daily driven cars it would be interesting to hear what kind of drive-ability issues (if any) folks have with huge fire-hose-size injector nozzles in cold weather and city driving.
http://www.deatschwerks.com/catalog/...alculators.php
Just one thing to keep in mind, peak horsepower and torque numbers have the WOW factor, but most cars spend probably 98% of the time with the injectors at far less than max duty cycle.
For daily driven cars it would be interesting to hear what kind of drive-ability issues (if any) folks have with huge fire-hose-size injector nozzles in cold weather and city driving.
Chris, I looked at the logs from when we were tuning my car on the dyno (walbro 255, DW 1000 CC injectors, stock turbo). I was hitting 85-87% IDC, so I think your math is pretty close.
A very interesting post and agrees with what my tuner has said--on a single Walbro with 800's you won't be able to max out a stock turbo (320 vs 350ish) and on 1000's you'll run out of pump before maxing the injectors (around 420, which isn't enough for a stock-sized upgrade turbo to be maxed).
There aren't a lot of injectors for the X above 1000 so most guys are going double pump and upping the pressure. That is good enough for the DW1000's to max a stock-size upgraded turbo, anyway.
I'm always skeptical when I hear about the AccessPort E85 tunes that use DW800 injectors. They can't possibly be making the power that some people are posting...the math doesn't work.
There aren't a lot of injectors for the X above 1000 so most guys are going double pump and upping the pressure. That is good enough for the DW1000's to max a stock-size upgraded turbo, anyway.
I'm always skeptical when I hear about the AccessPort E85 tunes that use DW800 injectors. They can't possibly be making the power that some people are posting...the math doesn't work.
The DW folks have a handy calculator on their site...
http://www.deatschwerks.com/catalog/...alculators.php
Just one thing to keep in mind, peak horsepower and torque numbers have the WOW factor, but most cars spend probably 98% of the time with the injectors at far less than max duty cycle.
For daily driven cars it would be interesting to hear what kind of drive-ability issues (if any) folks have with huge fire-hose-size injector nozzles in cold weather and city driving.
http://www.deatschwerks.com/catalog/...alculators.php
Just one thing to keep in mind, peak horsepower and torque numbers have the WOW factor, but most cars spend probably 98% of the time with the injectors at far less than max duty cycle.
For daily driven cars it would be interesting to hear what kind of drive-ability issues (if any) folks have with huge fire-hose-size injector nozzles in cold weather and city driving.
When I made my spreadsheet I used the calculators at Deatshwerks, great site and nice injectors.
Good to hear that, I figure even if it's off by a few percent it's still all relative so it gives a good idea of where you are and where you need to be based on crank HP goals. Sounds like your injectors are well sized for your setup, but I have a feeling the Walbro on E85 is being pushed pretty close to max.
Last edited by Hiboost; Dec 28, 2009 at 08:18 PM.
Updated with the special connectors needed to build your own fuel line: http://www.midwayautosupply.com/pm-4...t-800-084.aspx
heres a link to help you find E-85 stations near you.
http://gasprices.mapquest.com/?cid=g...&spid=28332173
Just select E85 from the drop down menu where is says gasoline and plug in your info.
http://gasprices.mapquest.com/?cid=g...&spid=28332173
Just select E85 from the drop down menu where is says gasoline and plug in your info.
The thought of buying a 3rd set of injectors within 6 months is very annoying, but you might be right. DW800's too small, DW1000's correct for now, but E85 on a BB-X will probably be a problem. Grr.
I went to the Blaqops website which indicates that its single pump kit comes with an in-line under hood filter and fuel strainer for the tank (see copy from website below).
Goofygrin has an in-line filter on his required parts lists. I'm curious if the Blaqops set up would address this need. Their website doesn't describe the fuel filter's type or construction.
Thanks in advance!
Copy from Blaqops website:
EVO X Single Pump kit
This is a complete kit to replace the stock fuel pump with the normal 255
replacement including an inline under hood filter and hose. Of course as
always it is E85 safe end to end and as stealth and possible. Please inquire
if you do not have a pump and need to add one to the kit with your order.
Features:
Pump Adapter
E85 Safe fuel lines
E85 safe inline-filter
E85 safe fuel strainers
Clamps
Goofygrin has an in-line filter on his required parts lists. I'm curious if the Blaqops set up would address this need. Their website doesn't describe the fuel filter's type or construction.
Thanks in advance!
Copy from Blaqops website:
EVO X Single Pump kit
This is a complete kit to replace the stock fuel pump with the normal 255
replacement including an inline under hood filter and hose. Of course as
always it is E85 safe end to end and as stealth and possible. Please inquire
if you do not have a pump and need to add one to the kit with your order.
Features:
Pump Adapter
E85 Safe fuel lines
E85 safe inline-filter
E85 safe fuel strainers
Clamps
Last edited by triguy; Jan 1, 2010 at 06:59 PM.
