I think sometimes people forget about the power band when building their cars. I mean people go around and say I want 400whp... yeah okay. But there is many ways to build a 400whp EVO.

I mean you either a Green, Red, Black, 5857, 6262 all will produce 400whp with a proper tune and decent fuel 93/E85.

The point I think all these people forget is the power band. I mean the Green probably has the largest power band for stock 2.0 motor and rev limit probably 8k max. The Red moves the power band a bit more to the right, but I am sure you can go easily 8.5k with proper supporting mods. The Black again moves it a bit more to the right than a Red, but I am sure you can keep it going to the 8.5-9k range.

Once you start adding displacement all these power bands move to the left and you will lose some upper rpm range.

Honestly, if you have larger plans to upgrade in the future for a street car a Red should be more than enough cams, exotic fuel, probably no need for building if you stay below 30 psi.

If you want the best street turbo probably the Green is the best choice largest power band on a 2.0L stock motor.

Black if you have plans to build the motor, cams, exotic fuels, 30+ psi etc...

There is more than one way to achieve the same goal if you just look for peak numbers, but there is so much more that people need to look into when picking turbos.

 

Here is a comparison 6262 vs. Green (stock cams for both, stock block for both)



Both produce 400whp in about the same area, but look at the Green before 5000rpm. There 2k rpm of power band you get extra with only a small difference uptop.

 

I know what you are saying clipse, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make.

You can't have your cake and eat it too, if you want more power you, especially if you stay with 2.0L you have to sacrifice spool time and down low torque.

I am trying to say that people look at something like a black and think it will be a lag monster and be horrible driving daily, but I am just trying to say its not that bad at all and is still smooth and civil.

On 8/9's I would tend to agree with you a bit more as my car spooled up over 1000rpm's faster than a locals evo 8 fpblack...mivec ftw.

 

Yeah, I wasn't even aiming my posts at you. I am just saying this in general. Since we see these threads pop up every week. Every week someone goes and says. I want to make XXX whp and XXX wtq. What do I need?

But the nature of it is the larger the turbo on a the 2.0L the slower the spool and generally the higher numbers the car can produce. I agree, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I mean, I tuned the 6262 recently. I mean it's not that bad on the street. Pretty streetable, just needs a bit more RPM during gear changes to get back into a bit more of a power band. But once it starts to hauls hold on to your breeches.

Eitherway, I found out that the larger the turbo the less spool you can really gain with MIVEC and it is better to just get larger cams and aim for more power than spool.

The stocker, Green, and Red you can gain a bit more spool, but with each size up Mivec for spool plays a lesser role.

 

Yeah but this isn't your thread. I was responding to the OP's desire to do 450 on a "normal" Dynojet in an affordable way. I'll stand by my statement that a Black on that lovely East-coast 93oct sounds like a good way to do it. I think a dyno chart of this has already been posted by someone.

 

Ehh... probably a Red could easily do it. No need to get a Black.

 

I think a red with cams could get to 450whp on good 93, but the tune wouldn't be conservative.

I think a black on stock cams on 93 or even 91 could do it a lot safer, but I agree the powerbands would be different.

 

Yeah it all depends on a dyno too Mustang vs. Dynojet (let's not consider Florida dynos )

But yeah, I would say a Red for a bit broader power band and for the extra bit in torque for putting around town. I mean you could go with 93 and meth. But I really hate meth, nothing but trouble comes from it.

The funny part is that I have been tuning a lot of large turbos, stockers, and Greens recently only a Red here or there, mostly out of the country so can't account for fuels.

I think you might get close to 450whp on a dyno jet without cams with Red on a good weather day with decent 93 fuel.

I am gonna be heading out to Switzer Performance here soon to get my Green dynoed on a dyno jet. I would go to BR if I didn't has some serious grudges against that place. So we will see what a maxed out Green on stock cams looks like on 93 on a dynojet.

 

Easy tiger, no need to take it personally. Since when does it have to be "your" thread to post your opinion and data? That is what forums are for. I disagree with using a black on 93 octane until I see further data. Now a black on E85 might be much more livable on the street "for me".

 

Go with some kelford 272 cams and 1000 cc pte injectors and a 255 fuel pump and port your exhuast main and get a o2 housing and out a fp black and youll make 450 all day safley

 

My point exactly. With the much narrower price difference between the Red and Black now, the cost of cams and a boatload of mods to get every whp out of the Red is a lot more expensive.

When people say "daily driver" to me I assume they're trying to spend as little as possible. If they want to join the $50k+ Evo club along with some of us dummies, then we'll take the conversation in another direction. haha.

 

You don't need to turn every thread into a discussion of your needs. You have enough of your own threads.

A handful of tuners don't believe there is any spool difference between pump and E85. I didn't see any difference on the stock turbo when I converted.

 

If you go with a 6262 youll tell a huge difference haha and like my dad always told me if you want to play you have a pay. Also go with a FP black because one day you will be like man i want to make some more power and you dont have to buy another turbo because your green or red is maxxed out just up he boost 15 pounds on your black and go go go ..

 

I'm not sure why you have turned this into a personal pissing match but I don't plan on continuing this after this post.

You have attacked me twice in this thread without provocation, simply because I didn't agree with your opinion.

People start threads for their concerns, what else shall I start a thread on, your overly sensitive tendencies, or your inability to handle someone that disagrees with you?

Forums foster communication, information sharing and yes, opinions. You don't like it, that’s' fine, but it doesn't have to be a personal attack.

Mods, I'm sorry for the OT $hit, but a quick look through the thread will indicate that I didn't instigate this OT crap. ---- Delete if need be.

 

Lomker, I would have to agree with talon on the stuff about his posts, lol. I don't think the green is the answer for the OP at all, but you do seem to be mad at him, haha