Rods/Piston Combo's
This is the setup I am running works great.
People keep saying things about JE pistons yet the two most respected evolution shops in the country, Buschur and AMS both use JE pistons to their custom specs, so I trust them more than people slinging parts because they have better margin on one over the other.
The stock sleeves can handle plenty, no one has seen a sleeve failure yet. Buschur doesn't upgrade the sleeves on his motors as he hadn't seen any issues yet either. Find me a person with a cracked sleeve or something and maybe i will hear you out.
On another note, your last statement shows your true reasoning...the rest of it you were just trying to justify your purchase. You wanted to be frugal with your internals which makes no sense.
Price should NEVER come into play when you select pistons/rods...I mean ever. The cost of a block far outweighs any savings not to mention the amount of money it takes to install the rods/pistons makes the hardware price look pretty irrelevant anyway.
H beams are a waste...if you care about weight get some aluminum custom rods.
The Manley I beams are pretty used by everyone and work great and support over 1000whp so they are an easy choice.
Pistons there are several great choices...if I didn't use my AMS spec JE ones I probably would've used CP pistons or possibly wiesco's.
People keep saying things about JE pistons yet the two most respected evolution shops in the country, Buschur and AMS both use JE pistons to their custom specs, so I trust them more than people slinging parts because they have better margin on one over the other.
The stock sleeves can handle plenty, no one has seen a sleeve failure yet. Buschur doesn't upgrade the sleeves on his motors as he hadn't seen any issues yet either. Find me a person with a cracked sleeve or something and maybe i will hear you out.
On another note, your last statement shows your true reasoning...the rest of it you were just trying to justify your purchase. You wanted to be frugal with your internals which makes no sense.
Price should NEVER come into play when you select pistons/rods...I mean ever. The cost of a block far outweighs any savings not to mention the amount of money it takes to install the rods/pistons makes the hardware price look pretty irrelevant anyway.
H beams are a waste...if you care about weight get some aluminum custom rods.
The Manley I beams are pretty used by everyone and work great and support over 1000whp so they are an easy choice.
Pistons there are several great choices...if I didn't use my AMS spec JE ones I probably would've used CP pistons or possibly wiesco's.
Manley TT's and our custom JE piston is what I'd recommend, we've built a lot of EVOX engines now and that number grows weekly. There are a lot of failures out there. Latest car in the shop is a pin boss failure in the piston, took the entire block/head out.
The stock blocks are good for about 500 whp here for a "limited" time. After they have been subjected to high cylinder pressures for any length of time the very top of the cylinder distort and push out. For any serious build, big power or 450-500+ for road course use I'd recommend sleeving it. We offer Darton sleeves but have yet to find a guy willing to pay the additional. With that said I haven't seen a cylinder crack but with the top of the cylinder getting pushed out they ultimately keep losing more and more ring seal in the most important area of the block.
We have our custom light weight pistons in stock in standard bore and .020.
The stock blocks are good for about 500 whp here for a "limited" time. After they have been subjected to high cylinder pressures for any length of time the very top of the cylinder distort and push out. For any serious build, big power or 450-500+ for road course use I'd recommend sleeving it. We offer Darton sleeves but have yet to find a guy willing to pay the additional. With that said I haven't seen a cylinder crack but with the top of the cylinder getting pushed out they ultimately keep losing more and more ring seal in the most important area of the block.
We have our custom light weight pistons in stock in standard bore and .020.
I have the MAP ultimate duty rods and JE .020 standard pistons, very happy so far. MAP stage 1.5 build.
Manly I-beams were my first choice but they were on backorder. I would rock a buschur shorty any day of the week too, they have been doing this longer than anyone else I know.
Manly I-beams were my first choice but they were on backorder. I would rock a buschur shorty any day of the week too, they have been doing this longer than anyone else I know.
uhhhhhhh Buschur uses manley h beam rods in his X motors so i guess they cant be too much of a "waste" (someone please correct me if im wrong). As far as the power the h beams hold, they are good for 600 reliably and i know i sure as hell wont be pushing over that with my black setup. So one should choose their internals according to their plans with the car. I had a fully built IX with the map ultimate duty (howards) rods and JE pistons (nitraded rings and upgraded wrist pins). On that car my intentions were to go all out with 700+ whp. This is not my goal for this car...
Manley TT's and our custom JE piston is what I'd recommend, we've built a lot of EVOX engines now and that number grows weekly. There are a lot of failures out there. Latest car in the shop is a pin boss failure in the piston, took the entire block/head out.
The stock blocks are good for about 500 whp here for a "limited" time. After they have been subjected to high cylinder pressures for any length of time the very top of the cylinder distort and push out. For any serious build, big power or 450-500+ for road course use I'd recommend sleeving it. We offer Darton sleeves but have yet to find a guy willing to pay the additional. With that said I haven't seen a cylinder crack but with the top of the cylinder getting pushed out they ultimately keep losing more and more ring seal in the most important area of the block.
We have our custom light weight pistons in stock in standard bore and .020.
The stock blocks are good for about 500 whp here for a "limited" time. After they have been subjected to high cylinder pressures for any length of time the very top of the cylinder distort and push out. For any serious build, big power or 450-500+ for road course use I'd recommend sleeving it. We offer Darton sleeves but have yet to find a guy willing to pay the additional. With that said I haven't seen a cylinder crack but with the top of the cylinder getting pushed out they ultimately keep losing more and more ring seal in the most important area of the block.
We have our custom light weight pistons in stock in standard bore and .020.
DB, so you are saying stock sleeves are starting to expand on the top of the sleeve? Is this just going to lead to lower compression over time? Or catastrophic failure?
Just curious because I know you had said before your stg 3 blocks were utilizing stock sleeves because you didn't see a reason for the upgrade as you'd never saw the stock sleeves have problems.
Hmmm, well that could be a problem for me...
Last edited by murlo26; Mar 9, 2011 at 08:05 AM.
From Buschur himself, the TT are the turbo Tuff rods, the I beam not H.
DB, so you are saying stock sleeves are starting to expand on the top of the sleeve? Is this just going to lead to lower compression over time? Or catastrophic failure?
Just curious because I know you had said before your stg 3 blocks were utilizing stock sleeves because you didn't see a reason for the upgrade as you'd never saw the stock sleeves have problems.
Hmmm, well that could be a problem for me...
DB, so you are saying stock sleeves are starting to expand on the top of the sleeve? Is this just going to lead to lower compression over time? Or catastrophic failure?
Just curious because I know you had said before your stg 3 blocks were utilizing stock sleeves because you didn't see a reason for the upgrade as you'd never saw the stock sleeves have problems.
Hmmm, well that could be a problem for me...
Regardless, h beams have proved themselves time and time again, so for you to sit behind your keyboard sayin they are a "waste" is simply showing your ignorance.
i like the H beam since they are lighter vs a stronger I ones. I do not think i ever will run 700+ hp to justify it . IN racing everything has a fine balance. 
Also a reason i like the cosworth stroker kit since they are designed and balanced together. Which is a best thing to do.
Also a reason i like the cosworth stroker kit since they are designed and balanced together. Which is a best thing to do.
Last edited by Robevo RS; Mar 9, 2011 at 07:37 PM.
WE DO NOT USE H BEAM RODS IN ANY ENGINE WE BUILD!!!
We do not have an H beam in our building and I haven't used one in at least 5 years in any engine we've built. Nobody at our shop told MAP we did either, as we do not.
We do not have an H beam in our building and I haven't used one in at least 5 years in any engine we've built. Nobody at our shop told MAP we did either, as we do not.
guy, Buschur said he recommends the turbo tuffs (thanks for specifying by the way) but his basic stg 3 block comes with h beams. This is a common misconception as it fooled me the first time i read through what his block consists of. I brought this to the attention of MAP and they called over there and verified they do indeed use h beams.
Regardless, h beams have proved themselves time and time again, so for you to sit behind your keyboard sayin they are a "waste" is simply showing your ignorance.
Regardless, h beams have proved themselves time and time again, so for you to sit behind your keyboard sayin they are a "waste" is simply showing your ignorance.
I answered this one before but not why.
A reason why i would go for cosworth, because in racing /from low to high level/ they proove them-self. in a good results.
To hold up in rally is quite hard on engine. If you dont want to rebuild them race after race.
Many many rally teams running cosworth because they make a stellar products and everything designed and balanced together. They are not cheap but very good quality.
Staying in the states , last year rally champion in the US and Canada is an EVo X ,has Cosworth internals as much as i know... He runned many many events , and won over the factory teams. He is not well funded as the Subaru . He also won two weeks ago front of Subaru America team with a WRC driver from England.
The rally engines running high TQ and low HP very very high boost sometimes, and running two race days and one practice each events ideally.
Rally is a lots of abuse continuously, hard to stay together there.
Rob
i do understand the drag and circuit using I beams , they need it they run much more power. Its like stroke kits , some likes it some doesnt . who is right who is wrong?
I would not stroke my car for rally since 5K rpm my car runs like N/A car and the stroket would hurt.
sorry off topic.
A reason why i would go for cosworth, because in racing /from low to high level/ they proove them-self. in a good results.
To hold up in rally is quite hard on engine. If you dont want to rebuild them race after race.
Many many rally teams running cosworth because they make a stellar products and everything designed and balanced together. They are not cheap but very good quality.
Staying in the states , last year rally champion in the US and Canada is an EVo X ,has Cosworth internals as much as i know...
He runned many many events , and won over the factory teams. He is not well funded as the Subaru . He also won two weeks ago front of Subaru America team with a WRC driver from England. The rally engines running high TQ and low HP very very high boost sometimes, and running two race days and one practice each events ideally.
Rally is a lots of abuse continuously, hard to stay together there.
Rob
i do understand the drag and circuit using I beams , they need it they run much more power. Its like stroke kits , some likes it some doesnt . who is right who is wrong?
I would not stroke my car for rally since 5K rpm my car runs like N/A car and the stroket would hurt.
sorry off topic.
Last edited by Robevo RS; Mar 9, 2011 at 08:02 PM.
damn, that is some of the best ownage i have seen
oddly enough i still have the PM from MAP:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wht9er
Just looking to go with a block to give me some added strength over stock. Wiseco pistons and manley h beam rods and no core provided. Buschurs motor with manley I beams and Je pistons are selling for 4600 shipped, so just curious how much it would save me going this route over doing a buschur motor.
From MAP:
Buschurs is 4400.00 with Manley H-beams just talked to Nick@Buschur about it.
Ours is 4199.99 and are Wiseco/Manley H-beams and you don't have to supply the core. If you send in your 2.0 AFTER you receive the built shortblock we will credit you 1500.00 dollars.
-Adam
__________________
Adam Brunson
Modern Automotive Performance
P: 1-888-MAPerformance
E: adam@maperformance.com
AIM: adamatmap (Best way to contact me!)
So either Nick supplied MAP with incorrect information or MAP is full of sh*t. Either way my mistake for using the information provided by another reputable shop/vendor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wht9er
Just looking to go with a block to give me some added strength over stock. Wiseco pistons and manley h beam rods and no core provided. Buschurs motor with manley I beams and Je pistons are selling for 4600 shipped, so just curious how much it would save me going this route over doing a buschur motor.
From MAP:
Buschurs is 4400.00 with Manley H-beams just talked to Nick@Buschur about it.
Ours is 4199.99 and are Wiseco/Manley H-beams and you don't have to supply the core. If you send in your 2.0 AFTER you receive the built shortblock we will credit you 1500.00 dollars.
-Adam
__________________
Adam Brunson
Modern Automotive Performance
P: 1-888-MAPerformance
E: adam@maperformance.com
AIM: adamatmap (Best way to contact me!)
So either Nick supplied MAP with incorrect information or MAP is full of sh*t. Either way my mistake for using the information provided by another reputable shop/vendor.
Last edited by Wht9er; Mar 10, 2011 at 05:24 AM.
Next time you want to know about a Buschur Racing product I'd suggest you call Buschur Racing and not a competitor.........
Our 2 liter is $4400 for the EVOX, NO CORE required, BRAND NEW block, BRAND NEW CRANK, Manley TT's and custom JE pistons.
Our 2 liter is $4400 for the EVOX, NO CORE required, BRAND NEW block, BRAND NEW CRANK, Manley TT's and custom JE pistons.
We do sell Buschur parts sir, and although some of our products cross over / compete I like to think that we still have a good relationship with the guys over there. It appears Adam was misinformed in this case, I apologize for any confusion.