EVO X 2.2L Engine Trouble!!
For us the V-power still 100+ oct. I always used that since that is a very stable gas in my country. Also we have more option of higher oct. gas but those are tend to be sometimes 105 then the other times 103
So i stayed my tuner recommendation with a V-power, only because it is stable quality.
first thing you need todo is set your cam timing back to something a lot softer.
GSC S2 cams dont like much overlap.
the stock cam timing will rule out cam's causing knock.
secondly, you need to check the tq on the knock sensor, make sure its within factory values.
then just tune as normal, start with lower than stock timing and work your way up.
you only care about CONSISTENT knock, if you see a 5 or a 9 randomly then dont worry about it...
once you start getting CONSISTENT knock, if your timing seems low, then throw some octane booster or better octane fuel in.. if the knock goes away then you are at the limit of your fuel.
*if the knock is still there, then you can increase the knock multiplier table for the RPM you are seeing the knock at*
*HOWEVER* I would get a knockbox or other equivilant tuning tool, so that YOU can listen for knock occuring...
This should all be done on the dyno as worrying about boost/afr/timing/knock doesn't leave much time for steering
Once you have resolved your knock, then you can play with cam timing again.... Oh and what AFR are you targetting? 11.5 is what I plan to use on 98RON (92.5 oct), probably something lower like 11.0 for circuit racing...
GSC S2 cams dont like much overlap.
the stock cam timing will rule out cam's causing knock.
secondly, you need to check the tq on the knock sensor, make sure its within factory values.
then just tune as normal, start with lower than stock timing and work your way up.
you only care about CONSISTENT knock, if you see a 5 or a 9 randomly then dont worry about it...
once you start getting CONSISTENT knock, if your timing seems low, then throw some octane booster or better octane fuel in.. if the knock goes away then you are at the limit of your fuel.
*if the knock is still there, then you can increase the knock multiplier table for the RPM you are seeing the knock at*
*HOWEVER* I would get a knockbox or other equivilant tuning tool, so that YOU can listen for knock occuring...
This should all be done on the dyno as worrying about boost/afr/timing/knock doesn't leave much time for steering
Once you have resolved your knock, then you can play with cam timing again.... Oh and what AFR are you targetting? 11.5 is what I plan to use on 98RON (92.5 oct), probably something lower like 11.0 for circuit racing...
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 291
Likes: 2
From: Belgium
Hey Tephra,
Thank you for your input
1- S2 cams where on the old 2.0L block for 1 year with the same amount of overlap without any issues, I doubt this is the reason why knock is occurring - I also tried less overlap and didn't workout - however, I will try the stock mivec maps and post back here.
2- Knock sensor is tightened to factory specs (20NM)
3- With my original (2.0L engine tune) map and 3* less timing I was seeing 16-18 knock counts.
Now that I am about 8-9* less than the 2.0L tune, knock is not consistent anymore, however I am not sure whether it's phantom or not. I noticed a small vibration whenever knock occurs, so I'm not sure if there is something causing the vibration and the knock sensor is picking it up. I think the best thing to do would be to use a knock box - then again there is this vibration that is worrying me.
4- boost/afr/timing/knock are being logged, so all I need to focus on is hearing the knock (knock box) and steering
5- AFR is set to 11.2-11.4 across
Btw, can you send me the knock tables addresses? Just in case I need them in the future
I am using Tephra V1 for USDM (rom 52680122)
Tks
Thank you for your input
1- S2 cams where on the old 2.0L block for 1 year with the same amount of overlap without any issues, I doubt this is the reason why knock is occurring - I also tried less overlap and didn't workout - however, I will try the stock mivec maps and post back here.
2- Knock sensor is tightened to factory specs (20NM)
3- With my original (2.0L engine tune) map and 3* less timing I was seeing 16-18 knock counts.
Now that I am about 8-9* less than the 2.0L tune, knock is not consistent anymore, however I am not sure whether it's phantom or not. I noticed a small vibration whenever knock occurs, so I'm not sure if there is something causing the vibration and the knock sensor is picking it up. I think the best thing to do would be to use a knock box - then again there is this vibration that is worrying me.
4- boost/afr/timing/knock are being logged, so all I need to focus on is hearing the knock (knock box) and steering
5- AFR is set to 11.2-11.4 across
Btw, can you send me the knock tables addresses? Just in case I need them in the future
I am using Tephra V1 for USDM (rom 52680122)
Tks
Former Sponsor
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 420
Likes: 0
From: Tri State
There were a bunch of changes that had to be made to the map. I changed a number of items so I can have an idea of what 'should' happen at his level of modification. I will keep everyone posted as we move along in the process.
John
John
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 291
Likes: 2
From: Belgium
Hey Tephra,
I backed timing off in the mid rpm range (3000rpm to 5500) about 5* and still getting the same random knock. 5500rpm and up timing looks good and the car is very powerful and no knock there. I also made a "custom" knock box and plugged it near the oem knock sensor, I could hear the engine noise very well and there is surely no knock between 3000 and 5500.
I need the knock table address plssssssss
Tks
I backed timing off in the mid rpm range (3000rpm to 5500) about 5* and still getting the same random knock. 5500rpm and up timing looks good and the car is very powerful and no knock there. I also made a "custom" knock box and plugged it near the oem knock sensor, I could hear the engine noise very well and there is surely no knock between 3000 and 5500.
I need the knock table address plssssssss
Tks
from goldens website (for 52680015):
You only really need to play with the multiplier table
Code:
<table name="Knock Sensitivity Load Threshold" address="561a0" category="Knock Detection" type="2D" level="2" scaling="Load8">
<table name="RPM" address="62890" type="Y Axis" elements="16" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>
<table name="Knock Background Noise Multiplier" address="59da8" category="Knock Detection" type="2D" level="2" scaling="uint8">
<table name="RPM" address="61ae8" type="Y Axis" elements="16" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>
<table name="Knock Background Noise Adder (SINGLE GAIN) #1" address="5fe82" category="Knock Detection" type="2D" level="2" scaling="uint8">
<table name="RPM" address="61ae8" type="Y Axis" elements="16" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>
<table name="Knock Background Noise Adder (SINGLE GAIN) #2" address="59d80" category="Knock Detection" type="2D" level="2" scaling="uint8">
<table name="RPM" address="61ae8" type="Y Axis" elements="16" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>
<table name="Knock Background Noise Adder (TRIPLE GAIN) #1" address="5fe6e" category="Knock Detection" type="2D" level="2" scaling="uint8">
<table name="RPM" address="61ae8" type="Y Axis" elements="16" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>
<table name="Knock Background Noise Adder (TRIPLE GAIN) #2" address="59d94" category="Knock Detection" type="2D" level="2" scaling="uint8">
<table name="RPM" address="61ae8" type="Y Axis" elements="16" scaling="RPM"/>
</table>
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 291
Likes: 2
From: Belgium
Hey Tephra,
I read on the evoxforums you wrote that when you did your 2.2L engine everything was fine the first day, then it began to read knock the day after.
When I adjusted my knock tables, the car was fine for two days, then it started picking up knock again. Can you let me know what was the issue in your case?
Moreover, if you can pm me what your knock multiplier table ended up to be,
Tks
I read on the evoxforums you wrote that when you did your 2.2L engine everything was fine the first day, then it began to read knock the day after.
When I adjusted my knock tables, the car was fine for two days, then it started picking up knock again. Can you let me know what was the issue in your case?
Moreover, if you can pm me what your knock multiplier table ended up to be,
Tks
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 291
Likes: 2
From: Belgium
" http://www.***************/forums/sh...ad.php?t=45931 "
I dunno why I have the idea that it was on a 2.2L?
PS: replace the * with e v o x f o r u m s.com (without the spaces between the letters)
Page#3
I dunno why I have the idea that it was on a 2.2L?
PS: replace the * with e v o x f o r u m s.com (without the spaces between the letters)
Page#3
Last edited by darwin_evo; Jan 14, 2012 at 08:53 AM.
Thread Starter
Evolving Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 291
Likes: 2
From: Belgium
Same thing happened to me a week ago when I increased the values in the knock multiplier table (didn't go very aggressive, 21 mid and 19 at 6500+). I was able to add alot of timing and increase boost, the car was very powerful and no knock at all. Two days later the car started knocking like crazy!
Is it possible that there is an algorithm in the ECU that "learns" how to pick up knock from other sounds, and in some instances ending up with a wrong sound?
Is it possible that there is an algorithm in the ECU that "learns" how to pick up knock from other sounds, and in some instances ending up with a wrong sound?
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 340
Likes: 2
From: Australia
Darwin - i used a headset and the dyno to get my knock tables sorted. I think you'll have to do the same.
basically, the knock i was getting at 4500rpm and 5* was FALSE
The knock i was getting at 6500-7000 and 9/10* was mostly REAL. weird.
(my motor is 9.5CR and 26psi on 98RON/93MON)
I have now set my knock multiplier table so that, most of the time, if the knock sensor picks up knock it is actually real. Some times it still picks up phantom knock.
And FYI during the first few weeks, either it became more sensitive, or the motor became more noisy as it freed up.
i ended up with this. much higher than i thought it would be :
***This is interesting though (Tephra maybe you have noticed this or can explain it?) - now that i have upped the knock multi table , if the knock count in Evoscan is even 1, it will pull 1* timing all the time...if knock is 3 it will pull 2-3* timing. it's like there is a multiplier at work.
I am logging the default Evoscan knock address 808A43 for JP/EU/AU.
basically, the knock i was getting at 4500rpm and 5* was FALSE
The knock i was getting at 6500-7000 and 9/10* was mostly REAL. weird.
(my motor is 9.5CR and 26psi on 98RON/93MON)
I have now set my knock multiplier table so that, most of the time, if the knock sensor picks up knock it is actually real. Some times it still picks up phantom knock.
And FYI during the first few weeks, either it became more sensitive, or the motor became more noisy as it freed up.
i ended up with this. much higher than i thought it would be :
***This is interesting though (Tephra maybe you have noticed this or can explain it?) - now that i have upped the knock multi table , if the knock count in Evoscan is even 1, it will pull 1* timing all the time...if knock is 3 it will pull 2-3* timing. it's like there is a multiplier at work.
I am logging the default Evoscan knock address 808A43 for JP/EU/AU.
Last edited by Beeble; Jan 15, 2012 at 04:23 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
David Buschur
Evo Dyno Tuning / Results
96
Oct 24, 2010 07:22 AM
