AMS Widemouth Downpipe vs the "competition"
Jan 23, 2012, 03:02 PM
#1
AMS Widemouth Downpipe vs the "competition"
Recently there has been a couple of poor attempts to copy the AMS cast widemouth design. Sadly a lot of honest people are going to run the risk of being duped and get a seemingly lower cost product but in the end could pay even more in replacements and labor time.
For this reason I wanted to shed some light on the positive attributes of our pipe vs the competition.
Now this thread only pertains to the downpipes pictured. I am sure there are other quality units out there but these two units are copies (albeit bad ones) of the AMS piece. You will only see one pictured because the two non AMS pieces are identical to each other. One being a copy and the other being a copy of a copy.
We understand that at $469.95 our downpipe is one of the most expensive on the market... However it is also the best made and best designed.
The biggest and most obvious difference in our pipe and the "competition's" pipe is the fact that our pieces are 100% cast as they join to the flex section. Both of the AMS ends are cast because that is the best way to make this product with the highest level of performance and the highest level or reliability. Could we of made it like the competition? SURE, but we would be cutting corners and not delivering our customers the best product we can.
Now lets get into the areas that you CAN'T see in the pictures from the outside.
The first and most obvious is the bellmouth section as it mates to the flex section. Here at AMS we cast that entire piece to allow not only a stronger piece but more importantly a much cleaner and smoother transition for the exhaust gasses to follow. This slight taper allows the gasses to cool and accelerate as they enter the flex section.
The competition however took a different approach. Rather than spending the money to completely cast that section they decided to slip a pipe in the end and weld it. This proved to be a bad choice as not only have they added another weld but that pipe is slid so far in that it sticks 1/2 inch past the opening of the bell mouth. This creates a nice deep groove all around the pipe to catch the air and cause all kinds of turbulence...... not good. In fact that lip is so deep that if you were to pour water through the pipe it would catch over 1/2 a cup of water!!!
Now let's move downstream to the exit of the pipe. Here at AMS again we have cast this piece in an effort to not only make the smoothest transitioning piece but one that will LAST!!!
The competition again took a different approach. They decided that stainless steel tubing was the best route. This might have worked but they missed one large area... They left the O2 bungs sticking up into the exhaust stream. So now not only does exhaust gas have to fight the massive lip up before the flex it now has to move over more raised areas creating even more turbulence!
Lastly let's take a close look at the bosses / bungs on the two downpipes. Here at AMS our engineers designed a custom heat shield to be used with our downpipe. This product actually never came to light but to be safe we kept that feature in our casting in case down the road we wanted to move forward with it. For now though those bungs are not functional at all.
The competition actually took the SAME approach for once...EXACTLY the same actually! The problem is they copied a feature for a part that doesn't even exist! They copied our EXACT BUNG PLACEMENT! I guess they just assumed it was a functional part and put it in there. Or maybe they assumed it was for the factory shield and never realized it because they never even tested their product. Or MAYBE...JUUUUUUST MAYBE they planned on copying our heat shield if that ever made it's way to market. I guess we will never know.
The last point I want to make is on the labor side. A side some don't even consider or think to consider. Anyone that has installed an EVO X downpipe can tell you its not something you want to do twice.
Wouldn't you rather put on a part made of higher quality parts and of better design? Wouldn't you want to put on a part that does just say they have a good track record but has the PROOF of that track record? Wouldn't you rather put on part from a company that tests on the race track, that puts in the hours to make SURE your part lasts instead of just assuming it will?
In closing yes our downpipe is as much as $200 more than some of these competitor versions but as you can see above there is a reason for it. We spend more making our piece so it works the best, makes the most power and is worry free for the life of the car.
We know that money in this day and age can be tight for anyone. All we ask is that you really look at the big picture. A few dollars saved now can turn into hundreds lost down the road in doing things twice. We see it every day inside our walls.
To read more about our widemouth downpipe please view our site and click the link following:
http://www.amsperformance.com/cart/A...-Downpipe.html
Thank you and as always feel free to ask if you have ANY questions.
Eric Gaudi
Sales Manager
AMS Performance
For this reason I wanted to shed some light on the positive attributes of our pipe vs the competition.
Now this thread only pertains to the downpipes pictured. I am sure there are other quality units out there but these two units are copies (albeit bad ones) of the AMS piece. You will only see one pictured because the two non AMS pieces are identical to each other. One being a copy and the other being a copy of a copy.
We understand that at $469.95 our downpipe is one of the most expensive on the market... However it is also the best made and best designed.
The biggest and most obvious difference in our pipe and the "competition's" pipe is the fact that our pieces are 100% cast as they join to the flex section. Both of the AMS ends are cast because that is the best way to make this product with the highest level of performance and the highest level or reliability. Could we of made it like the competition? SURE, but we would be cutting corners and not delivering our customers the best product we can.
Now lets get into the areas that you CAN'T see in the pictures from the outside.
The first and most obvious is the bellmouth section as it mates to the flex section. Here at AMS we cast that entire piece to allow not only a stronger piece but more importantly a much cleaner and smoother transition for the exhaust gasses to follow. This slight taper allows the gasses to cool and accelerate as they enter the flex section.
The competition however took a different approach. Rather than spending the money to completely cast that section they decided to slip a pipe in the end and weld it. This proved to be a bad choice as not only have they added another weld but that pipe is slid so far in that it sticks 1/2 inch past the opening of the bell mouth. This creates a nice deep groove all around the pipe to catch the air and cause all kinds of turbulence...... not good. In fact that lip is so deep that if you were to pour water through the pipe it would catch over 1/2 a cup of water!!!
Now let's move downstream to the exit of the pipe. Here at AMS again we have cast this piece in an effort to not only make the smoothest transitioning piece but one that will LAST!!!
The competition again took a different approach. They decided that stainless steel tubing was the best route. This might have worked but they missed one large area... They left the O2 bungs sticking up into the exhaust stream. So now not only does exhaust gas have to fight the massive lip up before the flex it now has to move over more raised areas creating even more turbulence!
Lastly let's take a close look at the bosses / bungs on the two downpipes. Here at AMS our engineers designed a custom heat shield to be used with our downpipe. This product actually never came to light but to be safe we kept that feature in our casting in case down the road we wanted to move forward with it. For now though those bungs are not functional at all.
The competition actually took the SAME approach for once...EXACTLY the same actually! The problem is they copied a feature for a part that doesn't even exist! They copied our EXACT BUNG PLACEMENT! I guess they just assumed it was a functional part and put it in there. Or maybe they assumed it was for the factory shield and never realized it because they never even tested their product. Or MAYBE...JUUUUUUST MAYBE they planned on copying our heat shield if that ever made it's way to market. I guess we will never know.
The last point I want to make is on the labor side. A side some don't even consider or think to consider. Anyone that has installed an EVO X downpipe can tell you its not something you want to do twice.
Wouldn't you rather put on a part made of higher quality parts and of better design? Wouldn't you want to put on a part that does just say they have a good track record but has the PROOF of that track record? Wouldn't you rather put on part from a company that tests on the race track, that puts in the hours to make SURE your part lasts instead of just assuming it will?
In closing yes our downpipe is as much as $200 more than some of these competitor versions but as you can see above there is a reason for it. We spend more making our piece so it works the best, makes the most power and is worry free for the life of the car.
We know that money in this day and age can be tight for anyone. All we ask is that you really look at the big picture. A few dollars saved now can turn into hundreds lost down the road in doing things twice. We see it every day inside our walls.
To read more about our widemouth downpipe please view our site and click the link following:
http://www.amsperformance.com/cart/A...-Downpipe.html
Thank you and as always feel free to ask if you have ANY questions.
Eric Gaudi
Sales Manager
AMS Performance
Jan 23, 2012, 08:21 PM
#4
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That massive lip on the inside of the bellmouth neck is so bad, as to virtually defeat the benefit of installing this type of downpipe. TXS sure cheaped out in the wrong area...
Jan 24, 2012, 06:11 PM
#6
I can see the difference and that...... I will be buying a ams downpipe.
But... do you have numbers to back how your produce is better? Everyone Loves dyno numbers. To most, thats a open and close case. I'm not trying say that your pipe isnt better, but lets face it, if a DD that only puts average of 10k miles.... What benefets besides looking at a pipe will one get. Does the other guys pipe hold up? Im sure your pipe has been track tested over and over, and I'm sure you got lots of data on this. What about the other pipe?
I wanna see this other pipe on a tracked car and romped on and dynoed. Things can be overlooked if it can perform just as good.
(still buying an ams downpipe)
But... do you have numbers to back how your produce is better? Everyone Loves dyno numbers. To most, thats a open and close case. I'm not trying say that your pipe isnt better, but lets face it, if a DD that only puts average of 10k miles.... What benefets besides looking at a pipe will one get. Does the other guys pipe hold up? Im sure your pipe has been track tested over and over, and I'm sure you got lots of data on this. What about the other pipe?
I wanna see this other pipe on a tracked car and romped on and dynoed. Things can be overlooked if it can perform just as good.
(still buying an ams downpipe)
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Jan 25, 2012, 08:01 AM
#9
I can see the difference and that...... I will be buying a ams downpipe.
But... do you have numbers to back how your produce is better? Everyone Loves dyno numbers. To most, thats a open and close case. I'm not trying say that your pipe isnt better, but lets face it, if a DD that only puts average of 10k miles.... What benefets besides looking at a pipe will one get. Does the other guys pipe hold up? Im sure your pipe has been track tested over and over, and I'm sure you got lots of data on this. What about the other pipe?
I wanna see this other pipe on a tracked car and romped on and dynoed. Things can be overlooked if it can perform just as good.
(still buying an ams downpipe)
But... do you have numbers to back how your produce is better? Everyone Loves dyno numbers. To most, thats a open and close case. I'm not trying say that your pipe isnt better, but lets face it, if a DD that only puts average of 10k miles.... What benefets besides looking at a pipe will one get. Does the other guys pipe hold up? Im sure your pipe has been track tested over and over, and I'm sure you got lots of data on this. What about the other pipe?
I wanna see this other pipe on a tracked car and romped on and dynoed. Things can be overlooked if it can perform just as good.
(still buying an ams downpipe)
Looking at all the restrictions that this pipe has compared to our downpipe there is no doubt that ours will make more power and last longer than this knockoff downpipe.
It's funny you ask for dyno charts for this pipe as we have asked the company offering this pipe to do the same. You would think they would have tested a product they are offering to the community but there are no dyno charts yet.
This is definitely not a downpipe that we want to install on any of our cars here or any customer's car either judging by the quality and issues we see with this pipe. This part just requires too much labor to install and remove.
Again, we understand money is tight for everyone. You have to look at the big picture. What may seem like a bargain up front can very often cost you even more down the road.
We have no problem with competition and people bringing to the market inexpensive options... just use your own design. There are several downpipes on the market along with AMS piece and are less expensive. They had their way of making it and did so without copying anyone's design.
Jan 25, 2012, 08:07 AM
#10
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We've installed numerous O2 housing/downpipe units and yes AMS is pricey, but well worth it. The AMS unit has always been the easiest unit to install and fitment is flawless.
Jan 25, 2012, 04:54 PM
#13
Looking at all the restrictions that this pipe has compared to our downpipe there is no doubt that ours will make more power and last longer than this knockoff downpipe.
It's funny you ask for dyno charts for this pipe as we have asked the company offering this pipe to do the same. You would think they would have tested a product they are offering to the community but there are no dyno charts yet.
This is definitely not a downpipe that we want to install on any of our cars here or any customer's car either judging by the quality and issues we see with this pipe. This part just requires too much labor to install and remove.
Again, we understand money is tight for everyone. You have to look at the big picture. What may seem like a bargain up front can very often cost you even more down the road.
We have no problem with competition and people bringing to the market inexpensive options... just use your own design. There are several downpipes on the market along with AMS piece and are less expensive. They had their way of making it and did so without copying anyone's design.
It's funny you ask for dyno charts for this pipe as we have asked the company offering this pipe to do the same. You would think they would have tested a product they are offering to the community but there are no dyno charts yet.
This is definitely not a downpipe that we want to install on any of our cars here or any customer's car either judging by the quality and issues we see with this pipe. This part just requires too much labor to install and remove.
Again, we understand money is tight for everyone. You have to look at the big picture. What may seem like a bargain up front can very often cost you even more down the road.
We have no problem with competition and people bringing to the market inexpensive options... just use your own design. There are several downpipes on the market along with AMS piece and are less expensive. They had their way of making it and did so without copying anyone's design.
Jan 26, 2012, 10:31 AM
#15
Evolving Member
AMS downpipe is a quality piece, but is not in everyones budget. An alternative are parts like these, TurboXS, thats is in their price range. Or some go with the ETS/MAP design, instead of a widemouth. At the end of the day its the buyers choice. 
*now listening to black eye peas - where is the love*
*now listening to black eye peas - where is the love*