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ETS T4 TS Turbo Kit and Phantom Knock (2 month long headache)

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Old Aug 27, 2017, 06:12 PM   #1
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ETS T4 TS Turbo Kit and Phantom Knock (2 month long headache)

Has anyone experienced excessive knock with the ETS T4 TS kit? Mine seems to be an earlier version. I have ruled SO MUCH stuff out with this knock. It happens under part throttle at as low as 6 psi. I'll get 6 counts but only when the gates crack open. I tried rerouting the dump further back under the car. Doesn't seem like there was much difference but it does seem heat related. On pull #1 for the day, I'll get 3 counts. The next pull I'll get 13. My thought now is the slip fit pipe on the WG dump

My WG and turbo exhaust connections are V-Band but my kit has the Y like this picture shows http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/i...rge1-01-01.jpg

There is a slip fit pipe on the one side of the Y for thermal expansion reasons. I think it's heating up and expanding in diameter and causing a rattle (this is how deep my troubleshooting is getting. It's been a battle literally every day for the past 2 months.) I'm tempted to reuse the one solid dump and fabricate one for the second WG to eliminate this Y.

Anyone have any experience with this? ETS recommended that I band clamp the dump tube to the downpipe. That didn't work.

I've removed every heat shield under the car
changed plugs
injectors were cleaned and scaled by ID already
fuel filter checked
WG heat shields bent out of the way
UICP readjusted and padded
knock sensor mounted to rubber washers
band clamped dump tube to downpipe
ran dump tube further back under the car
re-lashed valvetrain
FMIC padded
hit everything on the car with a rubber mallet
turbo is fine
drank a lot of Hamms
took turbo kit off and reassembled
disassembled pass engine mount area and reassembled
replaced oil pump (other reasons but it got done)
stethoscoped the engine. Sounds smooth as silk

We've had this build for 2 years on a stock turbo ***** out and we've NEVER encountered noise like this.

Help meeee
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Old Aug 27, 2017, 09:23 PM   #2
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Adjust your knock tables. What load is it at?

You can adjust the sensors sensitivity. You can have it ignore knock under a certain load.
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Old Aug 28, 2017, 07:55 AM   #3
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Unfortunately, it occurs really sporadically under any load where the gates open so that's not a comfortable solution for my e-tuner.

And I, personally, would rather find and fix the source than filter it out.
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Old Aug 28, 2017, 09:47 AM   #4
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Why did mount the knock sensor to rubber washers?


What camshafts and valve springs are you running?
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Old Aug 28, 2017, 09:50 AM   #5
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I experienced the same issue with my car. I also have a open gate and I just ignored knock under like 200 load If I recall.

I don't think the rubber washers in between is any better then adjusting the knock sensor settings. Your muzzling the noise anyway. It needs to be direct contact with block also Correct Bolt and torque.
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Old Aug 28, 2017, 12:49 PM   #6
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Quote:
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Why did mount the knock sensor to rubber washers?


What camshafts and valve springs are you running?
I have Tomei Procam 270s and GSC beehive springs

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Originally Posted by 4b11slayer View Post
I experienced the same issue with my car. I also have a open gate and I just ignored knock under like 200 load If I recall.

I don't think the rubber washers in between is any better then adjusting the knock sensor settings. Your muzzling the noise anyway. It needs to be direct contact with block also Correct Bolt and torque.
We decided to try the rubber just to see if it was something quirky. No avail. We were running out of ideas.
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Old Aug 28, 2017, 02:43 PM   #7
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I wouldn't be so worried about the turbo kit> previous motor ran fine with it, it's not the issue. Replace the knock sensor and get rid of the rubber washers. Also, you need to stethoscope the engine when the knock occurs.
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Old Aug 28, 2017, 03:33 PM   #8
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The turbo kit is the new addition. The engine ran fine with the stock turbo setup for 2 years.

Washers are removed now. I did that the other day as I saw no difference.
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Old Aug 28, 2017, 03:37 PM   #9
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Oh, I read that wrong, oops.


Who is your tuner? Maybe try someone else?


What fuel are you using? If pump gas, have you tried adding a few gallons of race fuel to bump the octane 4-5 points and see if the knock goes away or lessens?
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Old Aug 28, 2017, 03:44 PM   #10
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It's TJ at WTF. I trust his abilities and the fact that I'm getting 6 counts at part throttle 6 psi on E85 doesn't look like real knock at all. It seems to follow the wastegates opening.

We're on E85. Tested to 85%.
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Old Sep 11, 2017, 06:07 PM   #11
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Quick update:

My buddy sent me his spare knock sensor so I gave it a try. No difference. I am starting to realize that this knock is heat dependent. And by that I mean before the exhaust system gets saturated with heat there is little to no knock (1-2 counts max). Each consecutive pull brings higher counts. This evening my 3 pulls went 1 count, 6 counts, 11 counts. The knocksum is really sporadic as usual too.

Question for you all. Has anyone here experienced this infamous knock with a new turbo AND cast manifold? I'm curious if it's specific to tubular manifolds and if somehow deadening harmonics associated with the tubular manifold could help. Not sure how I would go about that. Maybe run a band clamp around 2 runners around the mid-length point of the runners to possibly dampen the vibes? All components are already DEI wrapped.
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Old Sep 12, 2017, 09:54 AM   #12
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How much timing are you running?
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Old Sep 12, 2017, 11:17 AM   #13
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I have had my ETS T4 TS setup for about 3 months now and have only noticed knock two or three times at full boost above 6.5k rpms. It's usually 2-3 counts but I've never experienced anything as low as 6 psi and as sporadic as you are experiencing. I had similar knock on the stock turbo as well and usually changing plugs and gapping them properly mitigates the problem for me but it seems like you already changed them.
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Old Sep 12, 2017, 11:50 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone View Post
How much timing are you running?
8* on spool and 12* up top.


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Originally Posted by Toekneeng View Post
I have had my ETS T4 TS setup for about 3 months now and have only noticed knock two or three times at full boost above 6.5k rpms. It's usually 2-3 counts but I've never experienced anything as low as 6 psi and as sporadic as you are experiencing. I had similar knock on the stock turbo as well and usually changing plugs and gapping them properly mitigates the problem for me but it seems like you already changed them.
Are you running factory bore 86mm?

To me it's really fishy that I went from an aggressive stock turbo setup to a T4 setup with the same exact engine and am getting this knock. It's like the combo of 2.2l and tubular manifolds causes mayhem or something. I dunno.
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Old Sep 12, 2017, 12:59 PM   #15
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8* on spool and 12* up top.




Are you running factory bore 86mm?

To me it's really fishy that I went from an aggressive stock turbo setup to a T4 setup with the same exact engine and am getting this knock. It's like the combo of 2.2l and tubular manifolds causes mayhem or something. I dunno.
What RPM is that?
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