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EVO X on the track

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Old Oct 22, 2007 | 05:21 AM
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From: SLovenia-EU
EVO X on the track

One of the biggest topics of discussion about the new Evo X is the question of which transmission to get. Setting aside the fiunancial aspect, the most important question is what will the owner do with the car? In my case, if I were to get one, it's be used for open track events.

But here's the challenge with this (or older) Evos. On my particular track (shown below), a mid-pack performance car should be hitting ~145 MPH at the end of the straight... and then continue accelerating while coming off the high-degree banking and turning down & left into the inner track. You use the straight to pass the slower cars... and while you are looking for an edge over the faster cars - many of which can do 160-175 there - it would take a heckuva lot of extra HP to get this "aero brick" of a sedan up to that kind of speed. So you won't have an edge here over those faster cars, but you absolutely cannot afford to fall very far behind. You have to keep up your cadence so that so that you can look to play your AWD and torque-vectoring advantage in the numerous tight turns in the inside portion of the course.

Now here's the problem in stock 5-speed Evos on this main straight. You'll start to notice this part way down the straight (and it's even worse when running the track in reverse direction, because of the layout, when entering the straight). I have seen this many times in earlier Evos when driving flat-out (and well)... I believe it will be the same problem in the 5-speed Evo X and have the drive-time experience and numbers to prove it. Although I may not be explaining it well here... normally I'd have a large map of the track and chalk-talk it.

Shift into 5th - RPM drops big time (economy gear).
Get up to 100-115 in 5th - engine starts dialing back boost. Worse.
*Stock* Evo VIII/IX 5-speed:

The acceleration *noticeably* drops off in this situation. 4th gear doesn't leave enough RPM to get to the necessary speed so you are stuck with 5th gear and a very seriously reduced rate of acceleration. In fact, in the reverse direction you notice this as you enter the main straight! Shifting into 5th very quickly turns into a slow crawl to HP peak in 5th - but the problem is you won't get there given the length of the straight because the acceleration will be so slow.

Overall gearing isn't radically different in the Evo X 5-speed. In 4th it will only do 93 at HP peak... shift into 5th and it could do 134 at HP peak. Except - again - you'll never get there because you are out of straight.

This is one way the Evo VIII/IX and X 5-speeds are all much the same car with the same issue for high speed work.

Keep in mind that at this high speed drag is a problem so you are starting to have to work harder anyway. Making it even worse, any shifting costs serious acceleration time, too. Going 4th to 5th is very noticeable. You can count the seconds you've just added to your lap time.

Evo X

What I've left out so far is the RPM you'd be at while coming thru a pair of 90-degrees turns with just before the main straight. The SST is better geared overall here as well, so the RPM thru these twisties would be higher in 3rd and then and I'd get to and thru 4th gear earlier on the main straight rather than later. And therefore on to a higher top speed.

With the SST, we'd shift at 6500 RPM in 5th (@ 117 MPH - my guess is about 1/3rd of the way down the length of the straight) into 6th gear and then we'd only have to get to 6000 RPM for 140 MPH (and we'd have had have more room on the straight to do so). And you will pass that many more people by being able to show that kind of over-taking speed. Over-taking speed is what counts here.

Because of the extra gear, there is an extra shift. However, the shifting is extra-human fast, and the revs are perfectly matched so the boost will return that much faster as well. Given the better gearing of the SST for this work, the car will be in a better RPM range to continue boost. While it will also (like the old Evos) start to drop off of max boost at high RPM, at least the RPM is in the right place here to keep closer to the HP peak.

I'm sitting here contemplating drawing a track map of likely shift points for this car, compared to some of my other cars. I'm out of time to go this far, but clearly the 6-speed is far better geared for these particular circumstances (as it would have been w/ the previous 6-speed).


Notice again I said clearly *stock*. Mods can help make up for this, there are mods to keep the boost up to max RPM, but the gearing problem is inherent.

Looking at the Evo X, here's the speed-in-gear for each tranny:




Here's the course... with the normal direction indicated (I should be using a GPS chart but I don;t have one here). The parts I'm talking about above are between the two red dots, and the direction is indicated with an arrow. This graphic (from the track site) isn't very good... the first two turns (starting with the left red dot) are actually more or less 90 degrees, first a left and then an immediate right - although it doesn't look at all like that angle on this lousy graphic. After those, you need to accelerate as much as possible and with the SST you will be well into 4th when you come out onto on the main straight (the "straight" is also straighter than it appears here, and it's well banked).

By the end of the straight, I want an X to be doing ~145. Due solely to the gearing, it's not possible in a stock 5-speed Evo. At the end of the straight (Turn 1) you turn towards the left, go thru the transition from the banking to the flat inside section of the track while continuing to accelerate just a bit, then brake for all you have. You need to brake down to about ~80 for the left-hand Turn 2 (just past the right-most red dot). This is where the 2-piece rotors will be invaluable, as well as aftermarket pads. The in Turn 2, the torque-vectoring rear diff will really come into play.

Back to the question of time lost while shifting. Here's a video from the Evo X press introduction in Japan, showing an Evo IX manual and an Evo X SST side-by-side:

This is exactly what I'm talking about time lost while manually shifting. The video also demonstrates the superiority of AWC in both the wet and dry.

Finally, a couple of additional facts. Remember that the X is only 100 pounds heavier than the previous car. The SST tranny is 49 pounds heavier than the 5-speed, and the engine is 27 pounds lighter than the old iron-block engine. This is an extraordinary achievement on the part of Mitsubishi; newly designed cars are gaining rate at a tremendous rate. The X meets far more advanced crash regulations than the prior car and it will be crash rated considerably better. Even more important to us, structurally it's light years better than ye olde VII-IX. The old one was good structurally, this one is much better, and that's another one of those inherent things that you can't really make up with band-aids.

So for this particular track (and even faster ones like Watkins Glen), in an X, it's a 6-speed SST or nothing. Even if it might require an add-on tranny cooler (pump and cooler will probably cost $1500) - which would be a good choice eventually, anyway.

COPY FROM PAGE: DrivingEnthusiast.net
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Old Oct 22, 2007 | 05:29 AM
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okay..............
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Old Oct 22, 2007 | 05:59 AM
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From: CT
all that just to show sst is better and shifts quicker lol, interesting read though, some reason i actually read it all
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Old Oct 22, 2007 | 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jenx1976
okay..............
+1
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Old Oct 22, 2007 | 06:20 AM
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so it looks like there's goin to be a 20mph difference in top speed between the sst and the 5-speed. now if you could launch the sst like a manual trans it would be a clear choice

Last edited by evo 8 ya; Oct 22, 2007 at 06:23 AM.
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Old Oct 22, 2007 | 06:24 AM
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I'm surprised they tested only the IX 5 speed since if they know about the gearing advantage of the IX MR with its 6 speed transmission they will realize that the 5th gear of the IX MR will keep it to boil up to near its topspeed.
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Old Oct 22, 2007 | 11:43 AM
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From: MI
Originally Posted by evo 8 ya
now if you could launch the sst like a manual trans it would be a clear choice
launch control it has it
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Old Oct 22, 2007 | 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by sblvro
I'm surprised they tested only the IX 5 speed since if they know about the gearing advantage of the IX MR with its 6 speed transmission they will realize that the 5th gear of the IX MR will keep it to boil up to near its topspeed.
either way you won't make up the lost time shifting so the 9 will still be slower. F1 made this switch (to electronic control transmissions) about 20yrs ago iirc. Now were seeing this "new technology" in the everyday street car
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Old Oct 22, 2007 | 08:14 PM
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From: Sconsin
Originally Posted by evo542
either way you won't make up the lost time shifting so the 9 will still be slower. F1 made this switch (to electronic control transmissions) about 20yrs ago iirc. Now were seeing this "new technology" in the everyday street car
That's nonsense, despite us slow shifting humans the SMG M3 and the DSG GTI has shown to be slower than the MT versions around a track with the same driver.

Also, I don't think there's any testing going on here. Seems to be a geek with a map and a spreadsheet. Lastly, just because horsepower peaks at a certain RPM does not mean you should shift at that RPM.
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Old Oct 22, 2007 | 08:30 PM
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From: tsukuba turn 4
Originally Posted by Ike
That's nonsense, despite us slow shifting humans the SMG M3 and the DSG GTI has shown to be slower than the MT versions around a track with the same driver.
ya sure bout that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj939um17r4
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Old Oct 22, 2007 | 08:42 PM
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From: NNJ
madfast, I like what you drive
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Old Oct 22, 2007 | 09:16 PM
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From: Sconsin
Originally Posted by madfast
Great, Best Motoring did a similar test with the GTI and the Manual was faster around the circuit, the same has happened several times with an SMG M3. Yours is the only time I've ever seen one of the new autos besting a MT, and the difference there is the difference of overcooking one turn or having a little more speed when they started the timed lap. Here's one for you to watch... In addition to the two MT's (M3 and 360) being faster it also goes to show how much easier throttle modulation and keeping the car going where you want it to go is in an MT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aMhKTP1OHU

What's the lesson to be learned here? If you enjoy shifting your own gears you should buy an MT. If you want the practicality and ease of an auto then buy the SST Evo, but don't expect it to make much of a difference around a track because some spread sheet says so.

I can guarantee you these cars will be pitted against one another soon enough so we'll see. But right now my money is still on an MT with a good driver.
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Old Oct 22, 2007 | 09:21 PM
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Interesting find.
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Old Oct 22, 2007 | 09:28 PM
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good read
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Old Oct 22, 2007 | 09:48 PM
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From: CNY
Originally Posted by Ike
Great, Best Motoring did a similar test with the GTI and the Manual was faster around the circuit, the same has happened several times with an SMG M3.

What's the lesson to be learned here? If you enjoy shifting your own gears you should buy an MT. If you want the practicality and ease of an auto then buy the SST Evo, but don't expect it to make much of a difference around a track because some spread sheet says so.

I can guarantee you these cars will be pitted against one another soon enough so we'll see. But right now my money is still on an MT with a good driver.
The Best Motoring vid you're referring to was with Hattori driving and he was slower than the manual counterpart because he didn't know how to drive it, as quoted by himself in the debrief.
And you can't seriously throw SMGs into the mix, that's just laughable as a comparison.
I think the lesson here is that the SST/DSG technology is the future. I'd bet that it will be superior to the 5speed on a track and the straight. What's more is that it will eventually be even more superior with each generation of the Evo after the X. That's some common sense i'm sure all of us can agree with.
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