how boring/cheap is the new jdm X RS?
No, it's not because they are faster. Where active diffs are not used, it is likely due to regulations, high maintenance/cost/reliability issues, or lack of understanding of the systems. Active diffs have only been recently banned in WRC spec cars. Before that, they used them to make the car faster around corners, to win races. They still would use them today had there not been the ban. You cannot argue the point that the FIA changed the rules to force the drivers to go faster, because they were making the wrong choice with the with "nanny computers" using "traction control" because the drivers don't know what they are doing and they want to weed them out. That point would be ridiculous. The real reason is, the active diffs are faster, and the team with the most money for developing those diffs go faster. They are all limited to 300bhp, so it's mostly about developing the other systems that wins races. If active diffs truly were worse, they would not have needed that rule, because nobody would bother with all the time and money to maintain them if it meant being slower.
I'm not certain what the regulations are for Grou-N, which is the likely destination for the majority of true "RS" Evos (not streetable versions like here in the US), but I would be surprised if they were not against the sporting regs.
I'm not certain what the regulations are for Grou-N, which is the likely destination for the majority of true "RS" Evos (not streetable versions like here in the US), but I would be surprised if they were not against the sporting regs.
not crank hp. whp. but they got 500 nm on wheel.
Thread Starter
Evolved Member
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,356
Likes: 0
From: in front of your car
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Perth, Australia
No, it's not because they are faster. Where active diffs are not used, it is likely due to regulations, high maintenance/cost/reliability issues, or lack of understanding of the systems. Active diffs have only been recently banned in WRC spec cars. Before that, they used them to make the car faster around corners, to win races. They still would use them today had there not been the ban. You cannot argue the point that the FIA changed the rules to force the drivers to go faster, because they were making the wrong choice with the with "nanny computers" using "traction control" because the drivers don't know what they are doing and they want to weed them out. That point would be ridiculous. The real reason is, the active diffs are faster, and the team with the most money for developing those diffs go faster. They are all limited to 300bhp, so it's mostly about developing the other systems that wins races. If active diffs truly were worse, they would not have needed that rule, because nobody would bother with all the time and money to maintain them if it meant being slower.
I'm not certain what the regulations are for Grou-N, which is the likely destination for the majority of true "RS" Evos (not streetable versions like here in the US), but I would be surprised if they were not against the sporting regs.
I'm not certain what the regulations are for Grou-N, which is the likely destination for the majority of true "RS" Evos (not streetable versions like here in the US), but I would be surprised if they were not against the sporting regs.
However banning active front and rear diffs (centre diffs are still allowable.. http://www.rte.ie/sport/motorsport/2...ingwheel.html), has had zero impact on the winning stage times being posted by the top runners on the same stages at the same rallys. Spend some time and have a look. Hell, Loeb and all the other M1 competitors managed to show all the M2 guys running active diff cars a clean set of heels in every rally in 06. Looks like passive diffs aren't all that bad!
All that aside though, I will admit I'm guilty of parroting something I was told by someone else. However, when that guy's name is Jeff Denmeade I'm happy to accept what he says at face value.
Thread Starter
Evolved Member
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,356
Likes: 0
From: in front of your car
before mitsubishi pulled out of WRC, they were running mechanical diffs to get a leg up on the competition when the new regs went into effect. i remember one TIGHT turn in particular that the mitsu couldn't make because the diffs weren't helping much. i'm not saying mechanical diffs don't work, but i'm willing to bet if active diffs where allowed again, everyone would switch back. i think moto gp times are as fast or faster with 800cc motors as they were with 1,000cc, but imagine how fast they would be with 1,000 again. f1 cars will probably approach then exceed lap times set with active diffs and traction control when they go all mechanical in 08, but even then i don't think there would be a team out there that wouldn't switch to electronic diffs given the choice. there are just some things humans can't do. namely, independent torque vectoring to all 4 wheels many times per second, which is a huge help.
Newbie
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Perth, Australia
Understand the points you're making.
However it's the very interference at unexpected times of these electronic systems that some very noteable rally drivers dislike or think they can do better without.
Guys like Jeff for one or on the world stage the ex-World Rally competitor Pentti Airikkala (http://www.leftfootbraking.com/penttischampions.htm)who's had guys like Mikko Hirvonnen and Jari-Matti Latvala at his school. In fact Pentti has gone as far as saying he believes active diffs destroyed the driving styles of McRae and Makinnen, because they were sensitive enough drivers to start reacting before the diffs started doing anything.
Perhaps for 99% of us the AYC is great. For top level drivers there doesn't seem to be the same belief in the system.
However it's the very interference at unexpected times of these electronic systems that some very noteable rally drivers dislike or think they can do better without.
Guys like Jeff for one or on the world stage the ex-World Rally competitor Pentti Airikkala (http://www.leftfootbraking.com/penttischampions.htm)who's had guys like Mikko Hirvonnen and Jari-Matti Latvala at his school. In fact Pentti has gone as far as saying he believes active diffs destroyed the driving styles of McRae and Makinnen, because they were sensitive enough drivers to start reacting before the diffs started doing anything.
Perhaps for 99% of us the AYC is great. For top level drivers there doesn't seem to be the same belief in the system.
Last edited by St205gt4; Dec 17, 2007 at 05:05 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Speedlimit
The Loft / EvoM Car Talk Corner
17
Apr 12, 2016 10:02 AM
bmaga123
Evo General
12
Apr 14, 2005 11:58 AM
