I just ordered them...definitely looks like the best solution for my needs.

 

Whats the danger?

 

With no additional roll over protection, head trauma can occur as a result of the roof caving in. A 4-point can also produce abdominal trauma due to submarining. Do a quick search in the motorsports section, there's lots of info on this topic there.

 

It's true that safety systems in the car are designed to work together (seatbelts, airbag, head impacting back of seat, etc). You start messing with any of this stuff and you're taking a risk.

The diehards will tell you full roll cage if you want harnesses. It goes without saying that you shouldn't ride in a car with a roll cage without wearing a helmet (you'll kill yourself in a accident by impacting one of the bars). This means harnesses = dedicated track car.

All of that said, I bought a set of Rallye 4's. I'll only use them at auto-x or HPDE and only when wearing a helmet. How can this be more dangerous than driving a motorcycle at a track? It's all relative.

 

The same could be said of a stock 3 point belt.
It does not seem that (but I am guessing here) a DOT approved 4point, as being discussed here, or more especially 5 or 6 point harness would be more susceptible to submarining than the stock belt.

 

The stock 3-point is designed and tested to work in a roll over. With the stock seat, the 3-point actually allows you to move sideways towards the center of the car. With a 4-point/5-point/6-point, the harness itself holds you in place, as it should, and without rollover protection the roof could cave in on your head and it will win.
From what I've found, the only DOT approved harnesses are made by Schroth and they actually have a bit of webbing that prevents submarining, I think they call it ASM or something like that. They also have a large red button on the cam to make it easy for paramedics to get you out in the case of an accident. 4-points are notorious for their submarining problems. 5-points are better since they have a block but they require specific seats to work properly. Same with 6-points.

 

Thank you, I will do some more research and happily stay with the stock 3 point in the Evo if more for convenience than anything because I am not fully able to visualize the roll over danger you speak of. I do get the feeling you are parroting what you have read or heard without do your own empirical analysis, but that is what we have experts for, to trust their opinion eh? I shall continue to use the 6 point harness in my Miata (single roll bar, no airbag) on the street, my biggest worry with that car is the possibility of hitting my head on the bar.

 

Well I hope to never have personal experience with it. It is based on what others have noticed in crashes and what the experts (those who design the harnesses) say.

 

Am I the only one who caught this??? Getting a concussion from being rearended? Were you belted in?

 

yea i was belted in... i'm 6'6" so i have a very long body... and when they hit me when i was at a dead stop and she was going 40 mph in bumper to bumper highway traffic... and the second time was basically the same scenario =/

 

The shcroth dos not submarining, only the cheap ones , like G-force.. Also the roll over with the 4 point harness has a same results as a 3 point. the belts hold you in place with the shoulders both . 3 or 4 point. So the results you are strapped to your seat wont matter is a 3 or th 4 point harness.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HR_FhuSEaU8


There is a lots of false and mystery going around with racing harnesses and roll cages about street safety. Like head injury with cages and so on. The best if you are contact with the manufacturer or someone who has a reputable knowledge about these things.

 

Soo..what did you hit your head on!

 

the steering wheel

 

Only the Schroth's with ASM have reduced submarining risks. There are plenty of accounts of harnesses causing problems in accidents, same with roll bars. Like I said, do a search in the motorsports section of this forum.

 

The steering wheel? Did you not have an airbag? I can understand being hit by an exploding airbag with enough force to cause a concussion but THE STEERING WHEEL? TWICE? If it was the airbag it probably saved you life in spite of the concussion, if it was the steering wheel you must have been pushed into the car (or other solid object) in front of you to throw you forward with enough force to stretch the stock shoulder belt (which is designed to stretch in conjunction with a functioning airbag) a considerable amount.

A four or five point harness would undoubtedly have prevented you from hitting you head on the steering wheel (unless the wheel was pushed backward into you by a sever front end impact), but without a HANS device or an airbsg, being thrown forward with this much force whilst your upper body is tightly constrained by a harness would likely have resulted in a basil skull fracture which is far worse (read fatal) than a concussion. Given a repeat of this exact same scenario, it is my humble opinion you are probably safer with a stock belt and airbag, unless you want to wear a helmet and HANS device on the street.