Bought a 2011 X does not pass Emission from dealer
Dec 27, 2014, 06:18 PM
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Bought a 2011 X does not pass Emission from dealer
Hey guys this is actually my first post in this forum. Nice to meet you all!
I am new to the EVO family which I used to own a STi, definitely love it over the subie
I bought my 2011 EVO X GSR on DEC 22,2014 in Utah from a small dealership and at the time the sales told me it pass emission test without problem.
Since the car was sold at a decent price and EVO is always my dream (Owning a STi before is because of budget problem), I purchased it without a second thought.
The second day I drove the car the CEL lighted up and shown a code P2096 (sth about the car running lean.) I took it to a tuner on DEC 27, 2014 and found out that the car do not have a catted downpipe.
So it means that it will not pass emission. The tuner told me that the dealer who sold the car should take responsibility and either buy a stock DP for me or replace it for me. But I cannot find any legal document talk about this specifically in Utah.
The car was a 2011 so it do not require a emission test this year and that's why the dealership can register the car. I contacted them right away and I feel like they try to get away from this.
They told me sth like "you just need it next year" and "we do not know anything about it". But they said they will talk with their service guy on Monday and get back to me.
So if anyone here have experience about this or do anyone have any sources showing the dealer do need to be responsible for this? I don't want to be passive when I deal with them on Monday,
I will need some info and evidence that good enough to make them responsible to that if in fact they need to. I will be good if they can just give me a stock DP so I can pass the emission when needed.
If you guys need more detail please let me know as I just try to keep it short and clean here. The car right now had a injen upper intercooler pipe, injen intake without air box, Invidia N1 cat back and a unknown catless downpipe.
Appreciate you guys time for reading this and any input will be really helpful. Thank you.
I am new to the EVO family which I used to own a STi, definitely love it over the subie
I bought my 2011 EVO X GSR on DEC 22,2014 in Utah from a small dealership and at the time the sales told me it pass emission test without problem.
Since the car was sold at a decent price and EVO is always my dream (Owning a STi before is because of budget problem), I purchased it without a second thought.
The second day I drove the car the CEL lighted up and shown a code P2096 (sth about the car running lean.) I took it to a tuner on DEC 27, 2014 and found out that the car do not have a catted downpipe.
So it means that it will not pass emission. The tuner told me that the dealer who sold the car should take responsibility and either buy a stock DP for me or replace it for me. But I cannot find any legal document talk about this specifically in Utah.
The car was a 2011 so it do not require a emission test this year and that's why the dealership can register the car. I contacted them right away and I feel like they try to get away from this.
They told me sth like "you just need it next year" and "we do not know anything about it". But they said they will talk with their service guy on Monday and get back to me.
So if anyone here have experience about this or do anyone have any sources showing the dealer do need to be responsible for this? I don't want to be passive when I deal with them on Monday,
I will need some info and evidence that good enough to make them responsible to that if in fact they need to. I will be good if they can just give me a stock DP so I can pass the emission when needed.
If you guys need more detail please let me know as I just try to keep it short and clean here. The car right now had a injen upper intercooler pipe, injen intake without air box, Invidia N1 cat back and a unknown catless downpipe.
Appreciate you guys time for reading this and any input will be really helpful. Thank you.
Last edited by Benson830; Dec 27, 2014 at 11:31 PM.
Dec 27, 2014, 07:05 PM
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I don't know man...usually used cars are sold "As Is". Not sure how Utah does things, but the consumer is usually responsible for getting keeping it up to code. Good Luck though. In for the suggestions.
Dec 27, 2014, 10:24 PM
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I search on ebay after reading yours and see 7x dollars include shipping. Make me feel a lot better!
Dec 27, 2014, 11:21 PM
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Don't drive it hard until you have it back to stock, in my opinion. It would also be a good idea to get your car looked over at a EVO speed shop to see what else is not stock that you may not know of. Posting some detailed pictures on here might get some feedback as well. In my opinion I'd just get it protuned for the parts that are on there, if you research and find out they are good quality parts.
Dec 27, 2014, 11:29 PM
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Don't drive it hard until you have it back to stock, in my opinion. It would also be a good idea to get your car looked over at a EVO speed shop to see what else is not stock that you may not know of. Posting some detailed pictures on here might get some feedback as well. In my opinion I'd just get it protuned for the parts that are on there, if you research and find out they are good quality parts.
Thanks for your post!
The tuner told me that the car had already tuned, just don't know exactly what they have changed and how's the map looks like. But he inform me that it should be fine to drive around with the setting right now.
But I am curious if a car is fine tuned, will the CEL light comes up? If it lights up is that mean there is sth wrong? He told me that the light was on just because the cat is gone but not really anything wrong with the car.
The car right now had a injen upper intercooler pipe, injen intake without air box, Invidia N1 cat back and a unknown catless downpipe.
I will definitely get it tuned again after solving this problem. Just do not want to change anything before getting my stock DP from the dealership.
Last edited by Benson830; Dec 27, 2014 at 11:45 PM.
Dec 28, 2014, 12:01 AM
#7
Could also be a leak in the exhaust system or a faulty rear o2 sensor. HFC and test pipes usually cause issues with this. The code is just emissions related, shouldn't cause any issues to drive it. I have a ETS test pipe with anti fouler and ETS v2 quiet with around 500 miles and no engine light yet
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Dec 28, 2014, 12:50 AM
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This guy is in Utah and can tell you exactly what is on your car, and tune for it. If you change to the dealer downpipe (stock), you are still going to need to be tuned for all that other stuff on the car. I'd get the downpipe, then take it to http://www.wtftuned.com/community/contact these guys, and have them install and tune the car for it.
Dec 28, 2014, 01:18 AM
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maybe this will help: looks like if the dealership is in a non emissions county sold you the car you can get it exempt from emissions I take it?? But if there in a emission county I believe its up to them to make sure it passes emissions.
Vehicles Sold by Dealers in Non-Emission Counties to Emission-County Residents
Utah law requires all licensed Utah dealers to assure vehicles they sell to residents of Cache, Davis, Salt Lake, Utah, or Weber counties meet emission testing requirements prior to issuing a temporary permit. However, because emission testing facilities are often not available in counties where emission testing is not required, the air quality administrators from the five emission-required counties have granted a limited emission test exemption. If a vehicle is sold to a resident of Cache, Davis, Salt Lake, Utah, or Weber counties by a licensed Utah dealer whose place of business is located in a non-emission county, the dealer must:
http://dmv.utah.gov/register/inspections#emission
Vehicles Sold by Dealers in Non-Emission Counties to Emission-County Residents
Utah law requires all licensed Utah dealers to assure vehicles they sell to residents of Cache, Davis, Salt Lake, Utah, or Weber counties meet emission testing requirements prior to issuing a temporary permit. However, because emission testing facilities are often not available in counties where emission testing is not required, the air quality administrators from the five emission-required counties have granted a limited emission test exemption. If a vehicle is sold to a resident of Cache, Davis, Salt Lake, Utah, or Weber counties by a licensed Utah dealer whose place of business is located in a non-emission county, the dealer must:
- Issue a temporary permit,
- Provide the customer with a copy of Form TC-820, Exemption Affidavit for Utah Emission Testing.
- Obtain an emission test certificate of compliance within 10 days of return to county of residence;
- Provide a copy of Form TC-820, Exemption Affidavit for Utah Emission Testing to the local motor vehicle office with the application for plate, title and registration, and,
- Send certificate of compliance and a copy of the TC-820 to the local Department of Health.
http://dmv.utah.gov/register/inspections#emission
Dec 28, 2014, 03:21 PM
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maybe this will help: looks like if the dealership is in a non emissions county sold you the car you can get it exempt from emissions I take it?? But if there in a emission county I believe its up to them to make sure it passes emissions.
Vehicles Sold by Dealers in Non-Emission Counties to Emission-County Residents
Utah law requires all licensed Utah dealers to assure vehicles they sell to residents of Cache, Davis, Salt Lake, Utah, or Weber counties meet emission testing requirements prior to issuing a temporary permit. However, because emission testing facilities are often not available in counties where emission testing is not required, the air quality administrators from the five emission-required counties have granted a limited emission test exemption. If a vehicle is sold to a resident of Cache, Davis, Salt Lake, Utah, or Weber counties by a licensed Utah dealer whose place of business is located in a non-emission county, the dealer must:
http://dmv.utah.gov/register/inspections#emission
Vehicles Sold by Dealers in Non-Emission Counties to Emission-County Residents
Utah law requires all licensed Utah dealers to assure vehicles they sell to residents of Cache, Davis, Salt Lake, Utah, or Weber counties meet emission testing requirements prior to issuing a temporary permit. However, because emission testing facilities are often not available in counties where emission testing is not required, the air quality administrators from the five emission-required counties have granted a limited emission test exemption. If a vehicle is sold to a resident of Cache, Davis, Salt Lake, Utah, or Weber counties by a licensed Utah dealer whose place of business is located in a non-emission county, the dealer must:
- Issue a temporary permit,
- Provide the customer with a copy of Form TC-820, Exemption Affidavit for Utah Emission Testing.
- Obtain an emission test certificate of compliance within 10 days of return to county of residence;
- Provide a copy of Form TC-820, Exemption Affidavit for Utah Emission Testing to the local motor vehicle office with the application for plate, title and registration, and,
- Send certificate of compliance and a copy of the TC-820 to the local Department of Health.
http://dmv.utah.gov/register/inspections#emission
This really helpful. Appreciate that so much!
They are a dealership in Draper so I believe it's still in emission county. I will show them this page if they trying to get away.
What they told me is because this year 2014, 2011 vehicle do not require emission test so they can register it without doing the test...
I will need to work more on my research skill
Last edited by Benson830; Dec 28, 2014 at 03:30 PM.
Dec 28, 2014, 03:26 PM
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This guy is in Utah and can tell you exactly what is on your car, and tune for it. If you change to the dealer downpipe (stock), you are still going to need to be tuned for all that other stuff on the car. I'd get the downpipe, then take it to http://www.wtftuned.com/community/contact these guys, and have them install and tune the car for it.
I am working with ziptiedynowerks currently, the owner Geroge is super helpful,
he spend 2 sth hours helping me on his day off Saturday without charging me a cent.
I will just work with them but no other from now on.
I did contact WTF by email before but 0 reply vs ziptie 5 mins response...
Dec 28, 2014, 03:41 PM
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Unless the emissions exemption is permanent, you really need to press the dealership to provide the parts needed to pass emissions. I was once successful in getting a dealership to replace an aftermarket clutch that went out on my evo a week after I bought it. You just have to keep on them. See below from a different thread. I know it's from a warranty claim dispute but I still think some of the same tactics can be applied to your situation.
One I want to make sure you understand I’m not an attorney so I’m not giving any legal advice.
However, I have worked with attorneys on a daily bases for 20 years and here is want I would do if it was my car.
1. Obtain a copy of the warranty and read it so I would be on an even level with the Dealership.
2. Set up a time to meet with the service manager and discuss the warranty and have him explain on a bumper to bumper manufacturer’s warranty how is a clutch considered a wearable part v. a motor, trans or axle. Make sure you get a business card.
3. Take written notes and make sure the people at the dealership see you taking notes. Ask them to review the notes to make sure you have recordered the conversation correctly. Also ask them to sign & date the notes somewhere if possible.
4. If you do not get the answer you want then involve the business manager and owner of the dealership.
5. Do not go to Mitsubishi as they will be taking the position of the corporation and their say is final. You want to put as much pressure on the dealer as possible at first and you want to make sure they understand they will be named or involved just like Mitsubishi on everything
You will find it is easier for them to warranty the repair and charge Mitsubishi than be involved in a fight.
6. Make sure the dealer who is an agent for Mitsubishi knows in writing that in the event the car is not repaired under warranty you will be seeking any “outside expenses occurred from them as a result of their denial of repairs.
7. Make sure you document your outside expenses such as lost time from work, rental car fees, cost to borrow a car from a friend, mileage on a second car to and from the dealership, miles to drive and pick up your wife from work.
Make sure you hold the dealership to a very tight time frame as the problem is costing you time and money and they might be responsible for the costs you incur as a result of their denial of warranty repairs
8. Obtain the necessary paperwork to file a Better Business complaint against both the dealership & Mitsubishi. Make sure you file the complaint as soon as possible after the first meeting. The dealership & Mitsubishi will be required to respond and (they hate this)
9. Research the car for “known issues with the clutch & trans.
10. If all falls apart and you fail there is an Arbitration clause is the warranty or sales agreement. However, seek out an attorney before requesting the Arbitration as it is legally binding on both parties.
10. If you have to seek out an attorney look for a “Products” attorney. Tell him up front of your $$$ condition and put him on a $500.00 retainer. Go for an associate attorney as their hourly rate is less. More than likely you will only want him to review you case (about a hour’s) of billing time and write a letter another hour.
12 Remember at all times be POLITE & MAINTAIN YOU COOL because as soon as you lose your temper, your done and YOU LOOSE.
11. If all fails seek out a trans from a low mile wreck as it should be a lot less expensive than $11,000.00 to fix a trans
ps. If you bought the car second hand then the dealer that sold the car could have some liability also. i would bring them into the fight also.
I hope this helps
TJ
However, I have worked with attorneys on a daily bases for 20 years and here is want I would do if it was my car.
1. Obtain a copy of the warranty and read it so I would be on an even level with the Dealership.
2. Set up a time to meet with the service manager and discuss the warranty and have him explain on a bumper to bumper manufacturer’s warranty how is a clutch considered a wearable part v. a motor, trans or axle. Make sure you get a business card.
3. Take written notes and make sure the people at the dealership see you taking notes. Ask them to review the notes to make sure you have recordered the conversation correctly. Also ask them to sign & date the notes somewhere if possible.
4. If you do not get the answer you want then involve the business manager and owner of the dealership.
5. Do not go to Mitsubishi as they will be taking the position of the corporation and their say is final. You want to put as much pressure on the dealer as possible at first and you want to make sure they understand they will be named or involved just like Mitsubishi on everything
You will find it is easier for them to warranty the repair and charge Mitsubishi than be involved in a fight.
6. Make sure the dealer who is an agent for Mitsubishi knows in writing that in the event the car is not repaired under warranty you will be seeking any “outside expenses occurred from them as a result of their denial of repairs.
7. Make sure you document your outside expenses such as lost time from work, rental car fees, cost to borrow a car from a friend, mileage on a second car to and from the dealership, miles to drive and pick up your wife from work.
Make sure you hold the dealership to a very tight time frame as the problem is costing you time and money and they might be responsible for the costs you incur as a result of their denial of warranty repairs
8. Obtain the necessary paperwork to file a Better Business complaint against both the dealership & Mitsubishi. Make sure you file the complaint as soon as possible after the first meeting. The dealership & Mitsubishi will be required to respond and (they hate this)
9. Research the car for “known issues with the clutch & trans.
10. If all falls apart and you fail there is an Arbitration clause is the warranty or sales agreement. However, seek out an attorney before requesting the Arbitration as it is legally binding on both parties.
10. If you have to seek out an attorney look for a “Products” attorney. Tell him up front of your $$$ condition and put him on a $500.00 retainer. Go for an associate attorney as their hourly rate is less. More than likely you will only want him to review you case (about a hour’s) of billing time and write a letter another hour.
12 Remember at all times be POLITE & MAINTAIN YOU COOL because as soon as you lose your temper, your done and YOU LOOSE.
11. If all fails seek out a trans from a low mile wreck as it should be a lot less expensive than $11,000.00 to fix a trans
ps. If you bought the car second hand then the dealer that sold the car could have some liability also. i would bring them into the fight also.
I hope this helps
TJ
Dec 28, 2014, 04:16 PM
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Unless the emissions exemption is permanent, you really need to press the dealership to provide the parts needed to pass emissions. I was once successful in getting a dealership to replace an aftermarket clutch that went out on my evo a week after I bought it. You just have to keep on them. See below from a different thread. I know it's from a warranty claim dispute but I still think some of the same tactics can be applied to your situation.
I will try calling them everyday. Hate to do sth like this bu thing just happen
Jan 2, 2015, 05:50 PM
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So the dealership said they would like to put a catted aftermarket DP on my car, do you think it will pass emission with that?
I heard somebody said only the OEM cat with make me pass emission... So I am not sure about that.
Any input will be appreciated! Thanks!
I heard somebody said only the OEM cat with make me pass emission... So I am not sure about that.
Any input will be appreciated! Thanks!