Evo X MR boost gremlin - input appreciated.
Oct 30, 2016, 09:34 AM
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Evo X MR boost gremlin - input appreciated.
[Just want to say thank you for reading and any input contributed. I apologize for the long read, but I needed to be descriptive and thorough for an accurate response.]
Hello,
I have been to a very reputable shop, tried to inspect / diagnose myself, and have reached out for potential ideas as to what is causing the issue I am experiencing. I could REALLY use some advice if anyone has any input regarding the issue. So far, I am running out of ideas as to what could be causing this.
As the title suggests, I have a boost leak at WOT when it's trying to reach target boost. The car does not stutter, jerk, buck, or have the Engine light flash. You can feel the car in 3rd gear rolling into boost losing pressure and feeling like it is dragging something. Shifting into 4th or trying to go WOT in 4th will leak sooner than 3rd.
The car:
08 X MR
Cobb ID 1000cc
325lph pump aem
Radium fuel rail
ETS Intake
Grimmspeed 3port ebcs
AMS cast downpipe
Custom e-tune, 26 psi - 91 octane
Compression check carried out earlier this month, everything was healthy.
Smoke test / vacuum test at the same time as compression, no leaks.
Sent the logs to my tuner, he said I was only hitting 22-23psi and that he didn't see anything on the logs that would indicate it being a tune issue. Also, the car was performing fine on this tune, with no other modifications done to it since having it tuned a few months ago. Tuner has an outstanding reputation and hasn't let me down before.
Backstory -- the car went in to a shop local to me (very reputable, great and honest guys) for a compression and boost leak test as mentioned above. I had this done to ensure the motor was in a healthy state before continuing to modify the car.
The techs told me they found no issue, but did clean up the throttle body and MAF, as well as replaced a kinked line/hose. This was due to a p1320 that I've been dealing with due to unknown reasons (not worried about it, only slightly misfires when cold starting for a minute or so, was told it could be due to Cranking Enrichment table).
Got the car back, felt great for the first day or two. No issues at all, drove like a dream. Did a 1st - 2nd gear pull on my way to the car wash, let out before 3rd gear, pulled into car wash shortly after, washed car as normal. Dried it off, went home, a few hours go by and I am on my way to work and go WOT and the boost issue first occurs. I hear a noise as if the bov is leaking or possibly wastegate fluttering. At first, I thought the issue may be a wet air filter or something that the car wash did. Not the case.
I call the shop after it continues to do it the next day and tell them about the phenomenon. I had ordered some brakes and would be going there anyways, so I just parked it and took it to them a few days later.
They verify all connections are secure and did a boost leak test. Said the results were ~30psi with no leaks observed, did the brakes, bedded them in for me, and handed me the keys. Got back in, car drove great, the brakes are awesome. I decide to give the brakes a bit and not do any pulls for a while. A day later I do more pulls and the issue is still there. Same thing, feels like it builds boost then something leaks and feels like it is dragging something behind it, feeling the car wanting to go faster, but not actually going faster.
At this point, the shop is a good reputable place, I take their word for their work and do not think they did anything to cause the issue. I decide to start reading forums and see if I can't figure out what is happening.
I came across a thread and DIY for crushing oem bov, as they are known to leak. I read about it and the possible overboosting, so I figure I will crush the bov myself, but not too much. I started gradual, barely crushing it and driving it afterwards. I did this process about 3 times before the nipple was flush and I noticed any sort of difference. The bov flutters more off throttle at low rpm, but I did not notice any sort of change in the boost issue. The nipple for the vac line is flush, as shown in the diagrams of the thread. The flutter is a normal sound off throttle with just the rattle snake noise with low boost. Higher boost the release is initially crisp and loud, but then I get the same flutter off throttle. Also I hear light flutter on slight throttle lift at low boost / rpm, while cruising in a high gear. 6th gear 55mph, 60% throttle will flutter once releasing throttle during cruising.
I came to the conclusion I should just replace the bov entirely and possibly even look at the stock wastegate next. So this is where I was at, until 10/30 (the morning of this post).
Morning of Sunday 10/30, 5:30 am cold start and on the road to work at 5:45 after letting it awaken with a few farts (p1320) for a few minutes. Temp reads >140, I baby it out of the driveway and off I go. It's 40ish degrees and a bit foggy, a nice morning with a reminiscence of my days with my Evo 6 in England.
2 miles into the drive, I've been babying it to operating temp. I notice everythings good and warm for a minute now, the road is clear, so I get on it in 3rd gear @ 3k rpm. --NO BOOST LEAK--, the thing pulled like a train from 3k rpm to 6k rpm, shifted 4th and went to 5.5k-6kish, shifted 5th kept on throttle and lifted a moment into it (smooth transition).
I was dumbfounded, "let's try that again" I said. A couple blips of the downshift paddle and a coast to 3k rpm. WOT hit it and everything is good. No audible leak like something was opening (bov/iwg) or failing to flow properly, the boost hit hard and as I think it should have been this whole time. No knock / misfires, no jerking, stuttering, bucking, noises, etc. It all worked perfect.
So, am I a wizard or does "hope" actually fix an issue? My questions --
Why is the issue all of a sudden gone?
Wouldn't fog + lower temps = higher / easier boost, meaning my issue is worse?
Could the iwg be failing?
Could the wastegate have been misadjusted at the shop?
Could it still be the (now crushed) oem bov?
I have no clue why it would just show up out of nowhere and then disappear out of nowhere, with no way of tuner detecting it via logs or physical connections via shop.
I will try to log more and see if it does it on my lunch break.
Hello,
I have been to a very reputable shop, tried to inspect / diagnose myself, and have reached out for potential ideas as to what is causing the issue I am experiencing. I could REALLY use some advice if anyone has any input regarding the issue. So far, I am running out of ideas as to what could be causing this.
As the title suggests, I have a boost leak at WOT when it's trying to reach target boost. The car does not stutter, jerk, buck, or have the Engine light flash. You can feel the car in 3rd gear rolling into boost losing pressure and feeling like it is dragging something. Shifting into 4th or trying to go WOT in 4th will leak sooner than 3rd.
The car:
08 X MR
Cobb ID 1000cc
325lph pump aem
Radium fuel rail
ETS Intake
Grimmspeed 3port ebcs
AMS cast downpipe
Custom e-tune, 26 psi - 91 octane
Compression check carried out earlier this month, everything was healthy.
Smoke test / vacuum test at the same time as compression, no leaks.
Sent the logs to my tuner, he said I was only hitting 22-23psi and that he didn't see anything on the logs that would indicate it being a tune issue. Also, the car was performing fine on this tune, with no other modifications done to it since having it tuned a few months ago. Tuner has an outstanding reputation and hasn't let me down before.
Backstory -- the car went in to a shop local to me (very reputable, great and honest guys) for a compression and boost leak test as mentioned above. I had this done to ensure the motor was in a healthy state before continuing to modify the car.
The techs told me they found no issue, but did clean up the throttle body and MAF, as well as replaced a kinked line/hose. This was due to a p1320 that I've been dealing with due to unknown reasons (not worried about it, only slightly misfires when cold starting for a minute or so, was told it could be due to Cranking Enrichment table).
Got the car back, felt great for the first day or two. No issues at all, drove like a dream. Did a 1st - 2nd gear pull on my way to the car wash, let out before 3rd gear, pulled into car wash shortly after, washed car as normal. Dried it off, went home, a few hours go by and I am on my way to work and go WOT and the boost issue first occurs. I hear a noise as if the bov is leaking or possibly wastegate fluttering. At first, I thought the issue may be a wet air filter or something that the car wash did. Not the case.
I call the shop after it continues to do it the next day and tell them about the phenomenon. I had ordered some brakes and would be going there anyways, so I just parked it and took it to them a few days later.
They verify all connections are secure and did a boost leak test. Said the results were ~30psi with no leaks observed, did the brakes, bedded them in for me, and handed me the keys. Got back in, car drove great, the brakes are awesome. I decide to give the brakes a bit and not do any pulls for a while. A day later I do more pulls and the issue is still there. Same thing, feels like it builds boost then something leaks and feels like it is dragging something behind it, feeling the car wanting to go faster, but not actually going faster.
At this point, the shop is a good reputable place, I take their word for their work and do not think they did anything to cause the issue. I decide to start reading forums and see if I can't figure out what is happening.
I came across a thread and DIY for crushing oem bov, as they are known to leak. I read about it and the possible overboosting, so I figure I will crush the bov myself, but not too much. I started gradual, barely crushing it and driving it afterwards. I did this process about 3 times before the nipple was flush and I noticed any sort of difference. The bov flutters more off throttle at low rpm, but I did not notice any sort of change in the boost issue. The nipple for the vac line is flush, as shown in the diagrams of the thread. The flutter is a normal sound off throttle with just the rattle snake noise with low boost. Higher boost the release is initially crisp and loud, but then I get the same flutter off throttle. Also I hear light flutter on slight throttle lift at low boost / rpm, while cruising in a high gear. 6th gear 55mph, 60% throttle will flutter once releasing throttle during cruising.
I came to the conclusion I should just replace the bov entirely and possibly even look at the stock wastegate next. So this is where I was at, until 10/30 (the morning of this post).
Morning of Sunday 10/30, 5:30 am cold start and on the road to work at 5:45 after letting it awaken with a few farts (p1320) for a few minutes. Temp reads >140, I baby it out of the driveway and off I go. It's 40ish degrees and a bit foggy, a nice morning with a reminiscence of my days with my Evo 6 in England.
2 miles into the drive, I've been babying it to operating temp. I notice everythings good and warm for a minute now, the road is clear, so I get on it in 3rd gear @ 3k rpm. --NO BOOST LEAK--, the thing pulled like a train from 3k rpm to 6k rpm, shifted 4th and went to 5.5k-6kish, shifted 5th kept on throttle and lifted a moment into it (smooth transition).
I was dumbfounded, "let's try that again" I said. A couple blips of the downshift paddle and a coast to 3k rpm. WOT hit it and everything is good. No audible leak like something was opening (bov/iwg) or failing to flow properly, the boost hit hard and as I think it should have been this whole time. No knock / misfires, no jerking, stuttering, bucking, noises, etc. It all worked perfect.
So, am I a wizard or does "hope" actually fix an issue? My questions --
Why is the issue all of a sudden gone?
Wouldn't fog + lower temps = higher / easier boost, meaning my issue is worse?
Could the iwg be failing?
Could the wastegate have been misadjusted at the shop?
Could it still be the (now crushed) oem bov?
I have no clue why it would just show up out of nowhere and then disappear out of nowhere, with no way of tuner detecting it via logs or physical connections via shop.
I will try to log more and see if it does it on my lunch break.
Oct 30, 2016, 12:54 PM
#2
Evolving Member
It sounds like the wastegate. To me it sounds like it's opening today if you will an causing a loss in boost pressure. Have you looked at the wastegate for any obvious damage? Maybe driving her hard will work out the issue. (Pay attention just in case it spikes)
Oct 30, 2016, 01:22 PM
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I boosted through 3rd and it seemed fine. Did a 3rd to 4th and partial 4th and it seemed to start leaking again. Did a 2nd to 3rd to 4th after it cooled on my way back from lunch and it boosted fine until higher rpms in 2nd, shifted to 3rd and it still was leaking but not as bad as before, then going into 4th instead of leaking everything and barely making boost, it stayed shut a little bit longer and I was able to boost higher in the rpm range, but still leaked nearing 4k (rather than 3k leaking usually).
As soon as I hear it leaking, I try to shift not long after. I don't like the sound it makes and the feeling of it dragging something behind it. The highest I've gone with the leak still happening and staying WOT has been around 5k rpm. Otherwise I shift whenever it happens a bit after.
This morning it felt like the issue disappeared for the 2-3 pulls I did to work and it felt really strong.
When I get home today I'll take a look at the wastegate and the actuator. Maybe I'll try tightening it just a small amount (maybe it got loose when the shop was working on it?>)
I'll try to log it more and do better pulls, like a WOT 2k rpm in 4th gear pull
Oct 30, 2016, 01:48 PM
#4
Evolving Member
To early* thanks auto correct. Also have you checked knock count? Maybe there is another issue to the point where the car is pulling timing. Which would also match what your explaining. If you start off in a high gear an floor it (which is causing the most load) does it get worse or do it every time?
Oct 30, 2016, 02:08 PM
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To early* thanks auto correct. Also have you checked knock count? Maybe there is another issue to the point where the car is pulling timing. Which would also match what your explaining. If you start off in a high gear an floor it (which is causing the most load) does it get worse or do it every time?
2nd gear will hold to a higher rpm, probably because it's not hitting as high of boost in 1st/2nd.
3rd-4th it hits right when boost feels like it peaks (lower in the rpm range, like 3k-4k) and then you just feel it drag and hear the noise / leak.
If I start off in higher RPM like 3rd gear @ 4k-4.5k rpm and go WOT, it doesn't do anything strange except leak when it feels like it should be continuing to pull.
I can try tightening the stock actuator rod later tonight.
I think I'll invest in a forge wg, new dv/recirc valve and tune it. I would probably need those items anyways, to run a stock frame upgrade later.
I guess I'll just baby it for now until those parts arrive
and see how it does with adjusting the wga by one or two turns.
Feb 9, 2017, 06:50 AM
#7
Evolving Member
So did you find the problem and fix it?
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Feb 9, 2017, 07:13 AM
#8
Evolving Member
yeah sounds like the WG to me. I know that COBB has two WG setting built into their OTS maps for this very reason. If you have Boost creep they tell you to run the low WG to bleed that off. My guess is that the WG is out of adjustment or needs to be replaced.
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