industry

CatalystGod

industry

you're absolutely right. I didn't read between the lines. just wanted to bring attention to the consistent annoyance. thank you for setting me straight.

.RYAN

iTrader: (1)

Any data to compare Endless to StopTech and AP Racing kits?

EVOXTIMES

iTrader: (4)

please pm price of entire kit.....to 10962 thanks

BPAuto

iTrader: (10)

Only front replacement rotors are available.

Unfortunately I have no objective data to compare Endless with those brands. Any comparison of calipers is extremely difficult as the main difference from one to the other is 'feel' which is impossible to measure. I can tell you that Stoptech and AP Racing make good products, but they are both kits made to a price, rather than engineered for optimum performance. I believe both companies only offer two-piece calipers where Endless offers both two-piece and monobloc calipers.

If you have been thinking about upgrading to the ultimate in braking for the EVO, now is the time to do it. Endless has the Mono-6 package on sale this month. You can take $600 off the front kit or $1200 off the full package. Both come with two free bottles of RF-650 fluid, the fluid used by BrawnGP and many other race teams. All Endless brake kits include your choice of Endless pads which have found huge success in endurance racing where the longevity of the pads is a huge advantage. For you, though, it means your buying fewer pads and saving money in the long run.

Ferreira

No disrespect but if you want to be the "brake guy" and not just a "brake sales guy" you should be more aware of you own field.

Stoptech can be argued that it is made to a price but AP has both, cream of the crop and "somewhat affordable" options. And AP is more about optimum performance than price.

Another bit of information, AP probably has more monoblock calipers than 2 piece units. Take a look at what brand calipers are in F1.

Endless is an up and coming company with great product for the price but certainly not up to AP/Alcon/PFC/Brembo in terms of performance.

No not really, weight to stiffness, flex, heat dissipation, abutment system and pad retraction, expanssion rates of the pistons vs the caliper body so that the pistons dont sieze or gaul the bores, piston cooling design - either vented caps or heat insolators, quality and shape of the seals to aid in retraction, etc, etc, along with many other engineering design reasons.

Again respectfully hope you dont take it in a destructive way.

BPAuto

iTrader: (10)

Hello,

Patrick is currently out of town so I am covering the boards in his absence .

Thanks for the insightful feedback. I agree that there is a lot of science involved in the function and operation of brakes. Heating vs. cooling, drilled vs. slotted, monoblock vs. 2-piece, etc. There are many different variables to take into consideration.

Brakes may be more of your forte than mine so please feel free to share any brake knowledge you may have. I am sure that people other than just me would enjoy your reading material.

PM's replied/sent.

-Hunter

evoluXrichie

up and coming? really?

http://endlessusa.com/main/endless-group

BPAuto

iTrader: (10)

That is true. I should have specified that I was only talking about kits that were designed specifically for the EVO X. I was only able to find AP's "somewhat affordable" options available for this application.

In hindsight, I see that it sounded like I thought AP was a second-rate company. This is not the case at all as they are present in many of the highest levels of motorsport and I personally love their new Radi-cal designs.
This is simply not true. As evoluXrichie posted, Endless has achieved quite a bit in the 20 years they have been producing brake parts. Right now they are having huge success in SuperGT cars which are extremely hard on brakes being relatively heavy for race cars, having extremely high levels of downforce and competing over long distances.

It is also interesting to note that the SuperGT cars use Endless' off-the-shelf calipers, not some special version that is only available to race teams. The brake fluid that Endless supplies to F1 teams is also just off-the-shelf RF-650 fluid.
Yes, all those things are factors in caliper design and they do differentiate one caliper from another. However, they are all set up to optimize one thing: feel. It's certainly true that calipers must be designed to withstand whatever conditions they will be subjected to and that they must be made as light as possible, but the majority of optimization is designed to improve how brakes feel (not just pedal feel but balance and consistency).

That said, I did oversimplify things and I apologize.
Hopefully my response doesn't sound like I did take it in a destructive way. I do take these things very seriously. It's my job after all. But I'm not in any way upset about you bringing these things up as it gives me the opportunity to clarify some admittedly vague statements. Thanks for keeping me on my toes

I, in turn, hope that none of this comes across as offensive or insulting to you or anyone else on this board. I truly want to be helpful and contribute meaningfully to this board and I hope that is the message that I'm conveying.

-Patrick

GTijoejoe

iTrader: (25)

I'm glad someone made this point so I didn't have too... I mean no disrespect as well, but this started out comparing brake fluid suppliers for F1

As ferreira mentioned, the above suppliers are all well known top rated racing suppliers that money can buy.... but don't let F1 fool you. F1 likes to spend money its only an object. The more realistic comparison is on heavier vehicles that use iron disks and a system that needs to be cost effective, that is where the design of the brake components become challenging.

My buddy who works with me now worked for PFC for ~5yrs designing disks/calipers for F1, Indy, Sprint, cup....racing etc etc...

But back to the original topic, we have never tested Endless brake products so I can not comment on their performance comparison.

Ferreira

In the end its all about energy. A 600kg F1 will have produced more energy than a heavier platform just because of the rate it gets back up to speed, plus aero, tyre, etc. But its aside the point and not applicable to a saloon car. Iron discs is what us "mortals" have to play with and those have much higher moment of inertia, etc, etc.

If he's involved in motorsports, we might've met before. What's his name?

This board should have more people like this. Cheers mate.

BPAuto

iTrader: (10)

Thanks. That really means a lot to me.

-Patrick