The Official Beat Up on Noize for His Virtual Drag-racing Thread
Mar 2, 2012, 08:00 AM
#1
The Official Beat Up on Noize for His Virtual Drag-racing Thread
There are a lot of wheels that won't fit even though they have a slightly lower offset than the factory +38. It all has to do with the style and design of the wheels. I would never recommend someone buying new wheels with an offset higher than +25 just for that reason.
Plus, I hate to run spacers so +15 is the best option for these wheels, IMO
Plus, I hate to run spacers so +15 is the best option for these wheels, IMO
Mar 2, 2012, 11:20 PM
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I wish these wheels came in 25+ offset. They would fit the Evo PERFECTLY. 35+ is too low and 15+ pokes way too much.
I picked up a set of 10mm spacers. Installing them tomorrow morning. I'll take pics after.
There are a lot of wheels that won't fit even though they have a slightly lower offset than the factory +38. It all has to do with the style and design of the wheels. I would never recommend someone buying new wheels with an offset higher than +25 just for that reason.
Plus, I hate to run spacers so +15 is the best option for these wheels, IMO
Plus, I hate to run spacers so +15 is the best option for these wheels, IMO
FYI, I plan on using OEM Enkei's for any real track abuse.
Mar 3, 2012, 02:09 PM
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Also, I would never stretch my tires. Tires were NOT designed to be stretched. Have you seen any road going cars, or race cars that have stretched tires? Do Formula 1 guys run stretched tires? Yea they provide some sidewall stiffness, but no one really thinks about the drawbacks of adding stiffer sidewalls. Not to mention this:
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2890360
although those tires had some gross amount of stretch (225/40 on 10" wheels? really?) that I know most Evo guys don't run, it shows you what could happen.
I would also suggest using the long ARP lug bolts if you do use the 10mm spacers. The stock ones barely provide enough threads for the nut to hold on to. Thread engagement is a tad bit longer than the nominal diameter of the lug bolts, so I'm going to say it's fine for now...
Last edited by bluedub1; Mar 3, 2012 at 02:34 PM.
Mar 4, 2012, 03:45 PM
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Probably not, but I'm not on stock sized tires.
Also, I would never stretch my tires. Tires were NOT designed to be stretched. Have you seen any road going cars, or race cars that have stretched tires? Do Formula 1 guys run stretched tires? Yea they provide some sidewall stiffness, but no one really thinks about the drawbacks of adding stiffer sidewalls. Not to mention this:
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2890360
although those tires had some gross amount of stretch (225/40 on 10" wheels? really?) that I know most Evo guys don't run, it shows you what could happen.
You don't have to use hub centric rings with these wheels. If your lug nuts are tapered (which you will have to use with these wheels anyway), then your wheels will be lug centric. Just make sure to take it easy when you start. Go slowly and make sure to go in the "star" pattern.
I would also suggest using the long ARP lug bolts if you do use the 10mm spacers. The stock ones barely provide enough threads for the nut to hold on to. Thread engagement is a tad bit longer than the nominal diameter of the lug bolts, so I'm going to say it's fine for now...
Also, I would never stretch my tires. Tires were NOT designed to be stretched. Have you seen any road going cars, or race cars that have stretched tires? Do Formula 1 guys run stretched tires? Yea they provide some sidewall stiffness, but no one really thinks about the drawbacks of adding stiffer sidewalls. Not to mention this:
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2890360
although those tires had some gross amount of stretch (225/40 on 10" wheels? really?) that I know most Evo guys don't run, it shows you what could happen.
You don't have to use hub centric rings with these wheels. If your lug nuts are tapered (which you will have to use with these wheels anyway), then your wheels will be lug centric. Just make sure to take it easy when you start. Go slowly and make sure to go in the "star" pattern.
I would also suggest using the long ARP lug bolts if you do use the 10mm spacers. The stock ones barely provide enough threads for the nut to hold on to. Thread engagement is a tad bit longer than the nominal diameter of the lug bolts, so I'm going to say it's fine for now...
For example, here are mine:
Those are 245s on 9.5 +15, they are not stretched much at all. Different tires have different widths even though they are listed the same but you have to be careful which you choose.
Mar 5, 2012, 05:52 AM
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First of all, you are being rediculous. No way are 245s on a 9.5 in the same ball park as 225s on 10s.
For example, here are mine:
Those are 245s on 9.5 +15, they are not stretched much at all. Different tires have different widths even though they are listed the same but you have to be careful which you choose.
For example, here are mine:
Those are 245s on 9.5 +15, they are not stretched much at all. Different tires have different widths even though they are listed the same but you have to be careful which you choose.
You should read the sentence below the link I posted. I posted that link as a reference to what could possibly happen, albiet extreme.
I won't argue with you on the "245 on 9.5". You do as you please.
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Mar 15, 2012, 07:56 AM
#11
First of all, you are being rediculous. No way are 245s on a 9.5 in the same ball park as 225s on 10s.
For example, here are mine:
Those are 245s on 9.5 +15, they are not stretched much at all. Different tires have different widths even though they are listed the same but you have to be careful which you choose.
For example, here are mine:
Those are 245s on 9.5 +15, they are not stretched much at all. Different tires have different widths even though they are listed the same but you have to be careful which you choose.
255/40? Not for me, big jump in diameter of the tire. I say run 265/35, do a light roll of the rear fenders and be done with it. It's not a big deal to roll the fenders. It won't change the way the car looks. I almost feel like some people have seen some horrendous roll job or don't realize what rolling is. You're just barely rolling the inner fender up inside a tad. Not a big deal. On CT9As that run 9.5 +15, yah they are going to have to do a MASSIVE roll job to make that fit. Not so much on the CT4A.
Mar 15, 2012, 08:13 AM
#12
One of the great things about the Tire Rack (besides the fact that they sponsor this forum without spamming it up like the pathetic wheel vendors) is that they provide the range of wheel widths for every tire that they sell. Therefore, you don't have to rely on something as useless as what the tire looks like on the wheel to know if it's stretched; you just read this off a table.
To be clear: it is not the relationship between the tread and the wheel that matters, partly because, as pointed out above, different tires with the same sidewall width can have very different tread widths. It isn't the tread that gets stretched. What matters is whether the sidewalls are being pulled outwards (or squeezed inwards). So, unless you're really good at looking at the sidewalls and ignoring the tread, you're not going to be able to detect stretch by eye.
To be clear: it is not the relationship between the tread and the wheel that matters, partly because, as pointed out above, different tires with the same sidewall width can have very different tread widths. It isn't the tread that gets stretched. What matters is whether the sidewalls are being pulled outwards (or squeezed inwards). So, unless you're really good at looking at the sidewalls and ignoring the tread, you're not going to be able to detect stretch by eye.
Mar 15, 2012, 08:38 AM
#13
Jimm, definitely respect your opinions, but the stretched look with that size tire widely depends on the brand of tire. Look at what Noize has now. His tires look massively stretched in that same size. Almost like 235 on a 9.5".
255/40? Not for me, big jump in diameter of the tire. I say run 265/35, do a light roll of the rear fenders and be done with it. It's not a big deal to roll the fenders. It won't change the way the car looks. I almost feel like some people have seen some horrendous roll job or don't realize what rolling is. You're just barely rolling the inner fender up inside a tad. Not a big deal. On CT9As that run 9.5 +15, yah they are going to have to do a MASSIVE roll job to make that fit. Not so much on the CT4A.
255/40? Not for me, big jump in diameter of the tire. I say run 265/35, do a light roll of the rear fenders and be done with it. It's not a big deal to roll the fenders. It won't change the way the car looks. I almost feel like some people have seen some horrendous roll job or don't realize what rolling is. You're just barely rolling the inner fender up inside a tad. Not a big deal. On CT9As that run 9.5 +15, yah they are going to have to do a MASSIVE roll job to make that fit. Not so much on the CT4A.
One of the great things about the Tire Rack (besides the fact that they sponsor this forum without spamming it up like the pathetic wheel vendors) is that they provide the range of wheel widths for every tire that they sell. Therefore, you don't have to rely on something as useless as what the tire looks like on the wheel to know if it's stretched; you just read this off a table.
To be clear: it is not the relationship between the tread and the wheel that matters, partly because, as pointed out above, different tires with the same sidewall width can have very different tread widths. It isn't the tread that gets stretched. What matters is whether the sidewalls are being pulled outwards (or squeezed inwards). So, unless you're really good at looking at the sidewalls and ignoring the tread, you're not going to be able to detect stretch by eye.
To be clear: it is not the relationship between the tread and the wheel that matters, partly because, as pointed out above, different tires with the same sidewall width can have very different tread widths. It isn't the tread that gets stretched. What matters is whether the sidewalls are being pulled outwards (or squeezed inwards). So, unless you're really good at looking at the sidewalls and ignoring the tread, you're not going to be able to detect stretch by eye.
Tire Rack does say OE tire size is ok for a 9.5" wheel. I have to believe they know what they are talking about. Based on how my Star Specs looked on the stock 8.5s compared to how the Nitto NT05 looked on them, I do think the Dunlops would look better on a 9.5. I already know they perform better, so it's a win/win.
After looking over the stanced thread this morning, I wouldn't say my tires are "massively stretched" by any means, but definitely more than I'd like.
I want correct gear ratio (265/35 will also make the car sit a tiny bit lower), as well as zero risk for rubbing. I don't want to roll, and I don't want inner fender contact.
Here's a few shots on the car with the coilovers, so you can best determine the level of stretch:
If you guys need something more close up, I have my iPhone on me and can go take a couple pics.
Seth
Mar 15, 2012, 09:19 AM
#14
Maybe it's time to step back and mention how you are supposed to approach all this. Assuming no constraints imposed by the rules under which you race, you first choose a tire, then get a wheel to make it happy. There are waaaay too many people choosing a wheel first and then asking what tire to put on it. That's bass-ackwards.
The only place where some thought and/or discussion is required is in the second step, where you choose the wheel. Here you often face (for any fixed amount of money) a trade-off between optimum width for lateral grip and weight (which affects longitudinal acceleration). To be even more blunt than I usually am, that's the only serious discussion worth having in the context of stretch: "is the extra weight of a blah-blah wheel worth it for blah-blah tire?" And, to reinforce something that Noize said above: there are plenty of 245/40/18s that will give you more lateral grip on a 9.5" wheel than a 9" wheel. Just ask people who run Evo Xs in STU.
The only place where some thought and/or discussion is required is in the second step, where you choose the wheel. Here you often face (for any fixed amount of money) a trade-off between optimum width for lateral grip and weight (which affects longitudinal acceleration). To be even more blunt than I usually am, that's the only serious discussion worth having in the context of stretch: "is the extra weight of a blah-blah wheel worth it for blah-blah tire?" And, to reinforce something that Noize said above: there are plenty of 245/40/18s that will give you more lateral grip on a 9.5" wheel than a 9" wheel. Just ask people who run Evo Xs in STU.
Mar 15, 2012, 10:10 AM
#15
Maybe it's time to step back and mention how you are supposed to approach all this. Assuming no constraints imposed by the rules under which you race, you first choose a tire, then get a wheel to make it happy. There are waaaay too many people choosing a wheel first and then asking what tire to put on it. That's bass-ackwards.
The only place where some thought and/or discussion is required is in the second step, where you choose the wheel. Here you often face (for any fixed amount of money) a trade-off between optimum width for lateral grip and weight (which affects longitudinal acceleration). To be even more blunt than I usually am, that's the only serious discussion worth having in the context of stretch: "is the extra weight of a blah-blah wheel worth it for blah-blah tire?" And, to reinforce something that Noize said above: there are plenty of 245/40/18s that will give you more lateral grip on a 9.5" wheel than a 9" wheel. Just ask people who run Evo Xs in STU.
The only place where some thought and/or discussion is required is in the second step, where you choose the wheel. Here you often face (for any fixed amount of money) a trade-off between optimum width for lateral grip and weight (which affects longitudinal acceleration). To be even more blunt than I usually am, that's the only serious discussion worth having in the context of stretch: "is the extra weight of a blah-blah wheel worth it for blah-blah tire?" And, to reinforce something that Noize said above: there are plenty of 245/40/18s that will give you more lateral grip on a 9.5" wheel than a 9" wheel. Just ask people who run Evo Xs in STU.
While I agree with the order of importance that you're highlighting, it is also absolutely about the user's intent.
Although handling is very important to me, honestly I'd be more likely to drag race than autocross. And with this turbo, it will already be kissing the rev limiter in 4th. I have a gear speed calculator, and with the NT05 or the Star Specs in stock size, my rev limiter (7780rpm) shows these speeds in 4th, rounded to the nearest tenth:
114mph (265/35/18)
116mph (245/40/18)
118mph (255/40/18)
Since we know 5th is basically an overdrive, and the space between 4th and 5th is vast, 255/40 would be the best for drag racing.
Tire selection in 255/40 is very limited, and rubbing is a concern.
Tire selection in 245/40 is great, rub risk is the least.
Tire selection in 265/35 is great, rub risk is highest, rear fender roll is needed, and pricing is highest.
A set of Star Specs in 265/35 are $225 more than 240/40, but a set of RS3 are only $80 more.
[/gearing nerd]
I guess I just did too much at once. When selecting wheels, looking at lowering solutions, and buying tires, putting all that crap in a blender and making it work is a bit challenging. I'm pretty happy so far, and the only big regret I have is not buying the Star Specs again over the cheaper NT05. I think the stock size makes the best sense all around, because it has the least amount of compromises.