innovative

 

nixx - Excellent, informative post.

FWIW - My wideband choice was largely influenced by two tuners that I respect enormously and am lucky enough to be able to pick their brains. One practically pioneered methanol injection with the 4G63T years ago (though I imagine he'll be the first to admit he wasn't inventing anything since the Grand National guys have been using meth injection with turbo cars for years). The other has tuned more 900whp cars in one week than most guys will work on in a lifetime.

Both of them prefer the FJO's hardware and the NTK sensor and run them in their personal cars. Neither of them have used EGT gauges in their personal cars in years. Like them, I prefer the sweep of a "numbers and needles" analog gauge vs a digital readout. So, I ended up with the FJO with NTK and gauge-type display plus an electronic GReddy boost gauge (includes 5-bar absolute MAP sensor). Not the cheapest setup and probably overkill for me and most people.

However, I think it makes for a clean install that puts everything I want to see right near the tach and suits my personal aesthetics.

 

Are you guys still arguing over this ?


Why don't we compile the ultimate comparison list of the:
PLX, Innovative and Zeitronix. ( easier said than done ? )

If it's elaborate we can see if the mods will make it a sticky.






.

 

I don't think comparing the LM-1 with the ZT-2 is the best comparison. If you are going to leave the add-ons like display, EGT, and MAP sensor out of it, I think a better comparison would be the ZT-2 (wideband controller only with WB O2 sensor) vs the LC-1 (wideband controller only with WB O2 sensor).

Then, I believe, you are looking at $279 for the ZT-2 with sensor vs $200 for the LC-1 with sensor.
This is not an equal comparison as you would need the lm2 to log RPM.

ZEITRONIX logs rpm out of the box, along with LAMBDA and knock sensor voltage.
ZT2=$279
LM1+LM2=$429 with "RPM kit"

Zeitronix WINS.


The LM-1 includes a display. Therefore, if you were to compare that to the Zeitronix product line, I think the more fair comparison would be the LM-1 ($349) vs the ZT-2 + LCD display ($394).
ZT2+LCD=$394 (Still logs, AFR, RPM, Lambda, knocksensor voltage)
LM1+LM2= $429 to log RPM, AFR

Zeitronix WINS again.


If a person wants to use the LM-1 instead of the XD-16 Standalone (LC-1 + XD-16 gauge), you could compare the LM-1 + LMA-3 package ($589) vs the Zeitronix "Full Works/Stage Eleventeen" package ($550).

This one is funny

If you want to hold you 4.5lb LM1 box in your hand while driving and watching the AFR, go right ahead. Better yet, try mounting that bad boy on your winsheild. The whole $589 package from Innovate is 6.5 LBS!

Did I mention it DOES NOT include $105 AEM 3.5bar map sensor?

Did I mention it DOES NOT included $77 K-Flex EGT thermocouple?

Did I mention that you are trying to force a unit that is not meant to be a permanant gauge to fit some kind of comparison budget while omitting the actual XD-1 gauge and magically leaving out $182 in sensors while adding 6lbs to the setup?

For ****s and giggles, lets pretend that we mount this 4.5 lb box on the dash somewhere you can see it's tiny display.

Zeitronix ZT2+LCD+AEM 3.5bar boost sensor+Kflex thermocouple EGT=$552
Innovate LM-1+LMA-3+AEM 3.5bar boost sensor+Kflex thermocouple= $771

With the Zeitronix using a stylish, discrete black anodized LCD display, simultaneously displaying Boost, AFR, AND EGT on one screen!

ZEITRONIX WINS IN ALL CATAGORIES!

Those are much better comparisons in both terms of price point and features.

A couple of times it seems like people have implied that you can log RPM, boost, AFR, and EGT for $279 with the Zeitronix products. I don't think that is an accurate representation.
You CAN log RPM, LAMBDA, AFR, and knock sensor voltage for $279!

Hope that clears things up.

 

I spoke with AMS when they were down for PRI in Orlando. They stated that they were interested in logging EGT. At their 900whp+ level, likely 4x EGT. Zeitronix is working on a 4x EGT program that should be complete soon. Outside of 900whp cars, 4x EGT is likely overkill.

 

Some features of PocketLOGGER ZT:

* No laptop needed, runs on a Palm OS PDA

* View and/or datalog all parameters the Zt-2 can read A/F Ratio/Lambda, EGT*, RPM, Boost*, TPS, and user input

* Review saved logs any time

* Big Number view displays up to 4 values in large font

* Search saved logs for specific data

* Alarm makes Palm beep when user set condition is met

* User set trigger to automatically start datalog

* Auto name and save logs over 5 seconds

* User programmable QuickSelects

* Min/Max memory for all selected parameters

* Log size only limited by available memory

* Efficient log storage saves limited handheld memory


http://www.pocketlogger.com/index.php?pid=plzt_ss



.

.

.




This will be with a PALM Zire71 320x320 Color LCD ... Small and light weight.



.




.

 

In that case, you would need to add the LCD display to the cost of the Zeitronix bundle. What you would have is the following:

Innovate LM-1 with LMA-2 ($429): includes display, sensor, software, ability to log AFR and RPM
Zeitronix ZT-2 with LCD display ($394): includes display, sensor, software, ability to log AFR and RPM.

Then you compare pros and cons such as cost, display, size, etc.



That's a valid point, now that we are comparing like products.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTP-Engineering

Did I mention it DOES NOT include $105 AEM 3.5bar map sensor?

Did I mention the ZT-2 "DOES NOT" include an internal 3-Bar absolute MAP sensor? What's your point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTP-Engineering

Did I mention it DOES NOT included $77 K-Flex EGT thermocouple?

Did I mention the ZT-2 "DOES NOT" include an internal K-type thermocouple? I don't see where you are going with this line of questioning...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTP-Engineering

Did I mention that you are trying to force a unit that is not meant to be a permanant gauge to fit some kind of comparison budget while omitting the actual XD-1 gauge and magically leaving out $182 in sensors while adding 6lbs to the setup?

For ****s and giggles, lets pretend that we mount this 4.5 lb box on the dash somewhere you can see it's tiny display.

Zeitronix ZT2+LCD+AEM 3.5bar boost sensor+Kflex thermocouple EGT=$552
Innovate LM-1+LMA-3+AEM 3.5bar boost sensor+Kflex thermocouple= $771

Oh, now I see. You didn't realize the LMA-3 includes the sensors in the purchase price. I still get confused with the Innovate lineup even after researching all the WB controllers I could, but the LMA-3 does include sensors. As far as the mounting goes, if you really hate the LM-1 box, skip it. Get the XD-16 Standalone kit (LC-1 plus the XD-16 gauge) and the LMA-3. That will run you about $100 more than the Zeitronix "Full Works" package (assuming you pay full MSRP on the Innovate; it can be had for less by contacting direct Innovate dealers).

This will net you a much smaller display than the Zeitronix setup but you will not be able to view RPM, EGT, or LAMBDA via the Innovate display. Whether those are pros or cons are up to the end user. One person might decide LAMBDA and EGT are unnecessary to them and the RPM display is redundant to the tach. Others might consider those to be critical elements.

I think you are sometimes a little too quick to disparage the Innovate line up in your enthusiasm for the Zeitronix. BOTH are great units that have their own unique pros and cons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TTP-Engineering

ZEITRONIX WINS IN ALL CATAGORIES!

It certainly does for a lot of people. Hopefully, everyone reading this thread can make a decision on what works best for them by comparing accurate and meaningful information.

Zeitronix homepage
Innovate homepage
PLX homepage
FJO homepage

 

Yes, there are pro's and cons for all the different mounting locations. I think that having the gauges mounted as you have them (right in front-center) is the most natural place to put them. However, you obscure the car's warning indicators and fuel gauge.. which I tend to look at quite a bit. If you suction-mount your "gauge" to the windshield you have to train yourself to look over to the left to read the information. But- I don't obscure anything. My state requires a huge inspection and registration sticker to be placed on the lower left corner of the window anyways.. and the ZT2 LCD is smaller than the stickers.. so.. I'm not blocking my view either as the LCD takes that space up that's already blocked. Regardless.. if you install a WB02- mount it to where ever your personal preference is.

 

zeitronix just ordered from T&T P, thanx Scott for the excellent service.

 

No problem, shipped this morning!

You're gonna love this and you saved $155 because it uses the same AEM 3.5bar medical grade kavlico precision boost sensor as your AEM standalone.

 

Here are pictures of my set-up. I have the LM-1 out of sight ready to log at a moment's notice. I have the XD-16 programmable gauge set up to read boost. I have the LED reading green when the car is in vaccuum, the last LED in vaccuum I have it set to blue. This helps me stay out of boost in daily driving. When I go into boost the LED goes red and peak boost is set to TEAL.

There is a little record button on the XD-16 that allows me to record w/o a lap top and w/o a pda. Just press the button and presto, it records to the LM-1.

The XD-16 display is large and easy to read even in direct sunlight.

The other gauge is an AFR analog gauge that lights amber like the dash board.

I am very pleased with this set-up. I am currently logging, boost, AFR, rpm and still have three ports open for more logging. When I get the Xede buffer I will log knock. And I am an EGT Thermocouple away from logging EGT.

The most important thing for me about this set-up is that I can log whenever the opportunity presents itself.

 

Looks sweet.

 

i like the innovate

 

innovate + EVOscan = A/F, timing, and knock....it doesnt get any better

i don't like how the ZEITRONIX looks....... other wise it's a good product

 

Does the LC-1 and XD-1 require a lap top to log? I am confused on that one and since you have that set-up maybe you can tell me.