Best Intercooler to buy?
Evolving Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
I'm not trying to bash anyone, but I would never trust a test of any sort if it's from the same manufacture. If you're Nisei, wouldn't you make the test so that your product comes out on top? I would only trust a test if it's from a 3rd party.
If i were to purchase an intercooler, it would only be HKS, ARC or Greedy. Not because it's bling, bling or bang for the buck, but because it's who I trust. Again, I'm not saying that others are bad or not as good, but it's a matter of personal preference.
If i were to purchase an intercooler, it would only be HKS, ARC or Greedy. Not because it's bling, bling or bang for the buck, but because it's who I trust. Again, I'm not saying that others are bad or not as good, but it's a matter of personal preference.
Nisei's information about testing the BR Deluxe FMIC : http://www.nisei-evo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25
Buschurs Test & Response :
The facts are the facts. That's all there is.
I was on the dyno today dyno'ing the car. I had just unstrapped it when I saw the Newest addition of their intercooler had come in. (They revised the single mount on it, I guess it wasn't in the right spot on some in the past, this is what I was told by the customer that sent it here.)
As soon as I got it I started to try and pick it apart. Bottom line it is a nice intercooler. I don't like the inlet tube as it sticks straight out and it hits the fascia more than it needs to. I also don't like that the OD of the inlet/outlet are 2.5" but the ID is only 2.2 inches as the material is very thick. I also don't like that the Nisei only has one single mounting tab on the top. Don't get me wrong, this is a nice intercooler. I am just picking since they want to pick at everyone else's. The intercooler weighs in at 26.3 pounds while ours weighs in at 27.5 pounds.
I reloaded the car on the dyno and bolted the intercooler on. The weather had changed quite a bit as it got much colder and started to rain. Once the intercooler was bolted to the front of the car I turned both fans on and let them run for a long time to get the intercooler as cold as it could get, ambient air temp. Then I did dyno runs in 3rd gear only.
After I pulled the car I left the car strapped to the dyno and took the Nisei off the car, bolted on our RACE FMIC (which is what they should have tested against in the first place since they are most similar in size) and then pulled it the same way in 3rd gear.
Bottom line is the two intercoolers are close. I took the Nisei and ours and compared them. The runs were 19 minutes apart as that's how long it took me to swap intercoolers.
There was absolutely NOTHING changed other than the FMIC's. NOTHING.
Here is the data, do what you want with it. I'm not hear to argue anymore. There is NO way to perform a more fair test than this.
Buschur Racing Race FMIC Nisei FMIC
Max HP 374 Max HP 369
Max TQ 372 Max TQ 371
Max Boost 31.07 psi Max Boost 30.36 psi
Air temps BR Race FMIC:
On the dyno at 2926 rpm with the BR Race FMIC, air temp was 64.40 degrees.
At 7,000 rpm the air temp was 66.20 degrees.
Air temps Nisei FMIC:
On the dyno at 3,000 rpm with the Nisei FMIC, air temp was at 64.40 degrees and ended at 68.00 degrees.
As you can see both intercoolers were started after being cooled as low as they could go. The starting temps were identical to the tenth of a degree. Both pulls were started at 3,000 rpm and run to 7,000 rpm.
My above observations about inlet/outlets and brackets are my opinion, take them as that. The above dyno testing, psi and air temps were as even as I could get them. EVERYTHING WAS DONE 100% LEGIT AND BACK TO BACK.
I did not test our Deluxe or Standard as I didn't have intercoolers built here to put on today. I am going out of town tomorrow and wanted to get this intercooler returned to the owner as I told him I would. Being questioned on this topic as much as I have has pissed me off. I nearly didn't do the testing at all.
I stand by my original post and say that their data with the inlet air temps DROPPING is bogus. I believe I proved it here.
All in all, they have a nice intercooler and there isn't a lot of difference in the two. I do feel we came out slightly on top and I feel a test between our race FMIC and their intercooler is the only one that is "fair" as the two designs are similar in size and design.
I know our race FMIC makes more power than our standard and deluxe cores so since we have this data I can swap one on when I get them for those of you curious.
Also, looking at the numbers my car is making you can see this is a good test at some good HP numbers for comparison. This is around 456 whp on a Dynojet for those of you wanting something to compare it to.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Now the testing that was conducted above was supposed to be the BR "Deluxe" (NOT the BR "Race") vs Nisei Engineering "Street". Also, the difference between the BR test & Nisei test was : BR - only provided the numbers in the post. Nisei - put up log's. Either way I would say that David Buschur was being honest.
This is a partial post of what Nisei Engineering posted :
Last thing, some of you are wondering how much better our Competition FMIC is over our Street. Well our Street FMIC is Excellent at keeping low outlet temperatures. The pressure drop on the Street was good approximately .7-1.6 psi (depending on turbocharger & boost pressure). The Street FMIC kept up with our competitors so called "Race" FMIC's.
When we began developing the Competition Series FMIC. We knew the Intercooler to beat was the Nisei Street FMIC. The Competition FMIC has the same Excellent cooling capability. Preliminary testing between the Nisei Street vs Competition FMIC's has revealed the Competition FMIC to produce the same low outlet temperatures, and on occasions produced lower outlet temperatures than the Street (3*-5*F degrees colder). Regarding the pressure drop of the Competition FMIC. We've been able to reduce it to less than half of the Street FMIC without affecting the thermal exchange characteristics. So far it has registered 0.2 - 0.5 of a psi (based on a stock turbocharger running 19-23 psi).Throttle response has increased, power comes in sooner and holds all the way through RPM range.
In the studies/tests I've seen so far, I strongly believe this FMIC will not be out performed by any intercooler in it's class!
When we began developing the Competition Series FMIC. We knew the Intercooler to beat was the Nisei Street FMIC. The Competition FMIC has the same Excellent cooling capability. Preliminary testing between the Nisei Street vs Competition FMIC's has revealed the Competition FMIC to produce the same low outlet temperatures, and on occasions produced lower outlet temperatures than the Street (3*-5*F degrees colder). Regarding the pressure drop of the Competition FMIC. We've been able to reduce it to less than half of the Street FMIC without affecting the thermal exchange characteristics. So far it has registered 0.2 - 0.5 of a psi (based on a stock turbocharger running 19-23 psi).Throttle response has increased, power comes in sooner and holds all the way through RPM range.
In the studies/tests I've seen so far, I strongly believe this FMIC will not be out performed by any intercooler in it's class!
Now, to be fair back then there was NO ETS when the poll was taken. The main thing the poll showed clearly was the top 3 companies who produced FMIC's. It's interesting that the top 3 companies aren't on this thread trying to prove how good there FMIC's are. I think it is actually good for manufacturer's to put up their info because, if they are bold enough to show it, it allows the other manufacturer's to test it or prove the information wrong.
If Buschur himself tested the Nisei "Street" FMIC and put those numbers up. Then I would think the numbers can't be far off. If Nisei Engineering put up those logs, then they must be able to back it up.
Based on Buschurs test showing how well the Nisei "Street" FMIC worked, and based on Nisei Engineering willingness to put up their logs. I can only give Nisei Engineering more benefit of the doubt on how good their "Competition" FMIC is. Especially, since no one has proven to be better or proven them wrong.
My vote is Nisei Engineering.
actually my opinion is the top 3 or 4 FMIC manufacterer's perform so closely a consumer can actually just go on lowest price. this is what i do, as tests and comparisons can get tweaked by unknown variable etc. for example look at buschur's test, this is testing on his 450whp evo. majority of evo owners do NOT have 450whp so that tiny difference between nisei and bushur is in all fairness negligible.
so this is my approach on ANY mod, once you do research and find the top few competitors it matters little which you take.
so this is my approach on ANY mod, once you do research and find the top few competitors it matters little which you take.
http://www.hbxcooling.com/products/show/1-439008
i was looking at this the other day...perforated or louvred fins...sounds interesting
i was looking at this the other day...perforated or louvred fins...sounds interesting
