ok so wats the diff?
which fasta?
etc..
i know twin turbo is just double turbo.. i think..
well i'm a total noob
i know wat they do.. just wat CAN they do?
yeh k thx peepz

 

Don't expect double performance from twin turbos is all I have to say. Expect less lag though.

 

Turbos use exhaust gasses to compress air into the cylinders, more so that it's a higher pressure than the ambient atmosphere.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/turbo.htm Helpful, I swear.

Using a twin turbo is designed to work with a one smaller turbo and a larger turbo. The small turbo works in that it is able to spool up faster reducing lag but you're not getting to much power, which is where hopefully, the larger turbo kicks in and handles your high end power.

As for superchargers, they compress air BEFORE it gets into the car, usually replacing the intake manifold with a supercharging unit where, as in Jackson Racing superchargers, it squeezes a hole "s" load of air into the cylinders.

There's more info, that's just the basics of basics.

 

have they got slight advantages over each other? like is one slightly better or much better? or just different types of boostS?

 

GSR,
I don't know why this is in this forum but the basics are as follows:

Single Turbo - Uses exhaust gas to spin a turbine wheel which is linked to a compressor wheel that compresses the intake air and feeds it to the engine. As well as compressing the air, it also heats it up therefore most turbo cars run with an intercooler to keep the intake air cool.

Twin Turbo - Use the same principal as above but you have 2 turbos with a changeover point between them. The reason these are used is because when you run a large single turbo you get too much lag (i.e. turbo takes a long time to spin up to speed and start producing boost) so you run with a small turbo for the lower rev range and then switch to a big turbo for high bhp figures. The key to managing these is the blending in of the switchover point. Get it right and you can hardly notic it, get it wrong and it feels like a dog.

Superchargers - These are run from a belt driven by the crankshaft. They compress the air and feed it to the engine like a turbo but they are driven fro teh engine itself and not from the exhaust gases. Therefore you lose power from the engine to drive the supercharger. The advantage that they have is that they have no lag because they are generating boost from the moment that the belt starts turning i.e. when you start accelerating.

A supercharged car will feel very much like a normally aspiriated car when driving while a turbo car will feel fairly sluggish until you start developing boost and then BANG, away you go.

Hope this helps

Andy

 

Twin turbos can be run in two different ways. You guys have it half right. You are explaining a twin SEQUENTIAL setup. This is typically used on cars with inline engines such as the Supra and 300ZX. You can also have a setup that uses two small (or large, i guess) at the same time. Typically you see this on V-arraged engines like the 3000GT.
<<<<-----turbo guy

 

Close. The 300ZX is a V6 just like the 3000GT. They both have equally
sized turbos for each side of the engine. Can you imagine quad turbos?
Wasn't there some form of Bugati or some other super exotic with
this kind of arangement on either a v8 or v12? I also think theres
a quad setup for VW's upcoming W12. And I've seen a blitz setup
with twin superchargers for the new LS450.

Imagine 4 BOV's on a quad turbo V12...The blast alone could probably
kill a small child.

 

that was exactly what i wuz about to say when i wuz readin ur post LOL but picture a quad-turb VW... thats interesting.. hehe

 

Hey, thanks for this link. It was really helpful in explaining this turbo stuff.

 

Twins have a slight advantage over a supercharger due to a super stealing HP from the engine because they're belt driven. The turbos are "free" HP so to speak. However from the price standpoint a super with a pre-cooler (much like an intercooler) has a big advantage over twins as far as $ per HP

 

WOW that how it works web site is the GReatest. The Turbo section was about the coolest thing i have ever read. I love to learn how things work and this site was the best learning tool ever. I want to give this site the higest praises. I know this is a Lancer Forum and i love this site too but thanks for recomending that website. PS ROCKS!!! and i'm going to get a small turbocharger so that my back pressure wouldn't hurt my performance. YEAH!!! I KNOW STUFF!!!

 

Hey gents,

About single turbos v. dual, if you want to make big power from a stock twin set-up - Supra, 300Z, 3000GT- you go single... a very big single. Yeah, you may have a little more lag, but you just can't make the same power with two small turbos, and two big turbos take too long to kick in. Just ask the Supra guys which set-up makes big power.

Don't even waste the money to make NA engine twin turbo charged. Just stick to single and make it big.

As for superchargers... well once you bolt them on, you get the hp increase you get. It's static. You want more hp? Sorry. Plus, until they create enough boost they suck... literally taking power from your motor to spool up and compress the air.

And do you really want to increase power the way Mercedes does, who can't make a decent NA motor to save its a**? Just think OEM performance cars - Porsche, Audi, Mitso, Subaru - use turbos.

And that's the beauty or turbo... free hp, and the ability to make more and more power with more boost, even bigger turbos, bigger down-pipes, bigger intercoolers. The amount of boost is pretty much limited to your engine block, and your resources. So if you want big boost... which if you do forced induction, you will since it's insanely addictive... you should build your block for the increase boost .

And don't worry about the fear of turbo lag... moder, T03/04 turbos spool fast and make big power, kicking in around 3-4000 rpm, when your engine normally starts to make power... just be carefull of aftermarket cams since they can leak all that boost away!

So turbos are hands down... especially for people who mod since you can continue tweeking... the better way to go for forced induction or power gains period. Yeah supercharging is initially cheaper, untill you rip it out a pay for the turbo. Just do it righ the first time.

Peace.

 

I'm not so sure it would necessarily be better to go with a single turbo
on a V engine. Out of all the tuned 300ZX's I've seen in magazines
and at shows, they were all still twins. The 3000GT has much less
exposure, but the two kits from HKS and GReddy are also twin.

I think it is better for someone who wants crazy top end power
to go with a single, just as the Supra people do, but if I had one
of these cars, I'd rather have a well engineered twin setup so I
wouldn't have to deal with the lag. The choices for turbos for my
Eclipse get to a point where the really big ones are recommended
for drag use only, so even though the power produced is high, it
just makes for an uncomfortable car to deal with in stop and go
traffic. Maybe its easier to engineer (and overall cheaper) to make
a single turbo kit, but If I had one of those cars (Supra or RX7) I'd
rather have a well engineered twin sequential setup with a small
quick spooler, mated with a big hitter on top. But for a 300ZX or
3000GT, I think twin equally sized turbos is the only/best way to go.

Not quite. There are overdrive pulleys available to increase the
speed of the Supercharger. You can get these for cars such
as the supercharged GM V6's, and I'm pretty sure makers like
Jackson offer different sizes for there offerings as well. But your
right, it isn't as impressive as adjasting a boost controller or wastegate
to get more power. The hp from a turbo isn't totally free. Although
the drain is negligble to most tuners (as compared to Superchargers)
there is a drain, while exhaust flow is slowed to spool the turbo.

Mercedes can't make a decent NA motor? I suppose that is just
an opinion, but when I think of all the successes they've had in
Motorsports with ther NA v8's I tend to think thats not a very good one.

I do love turbos, but I don't think the answer is so black and white for
everyone. NHRA top fuel dragsters all use superchargers, I do believe.
And nobody does it quicker then they do.

 

you took the words right out of my... er keyboard.
Top fuel and funnys both use them. original Roots types all the way baby. What better way to feed a 7,000 hp engine?

 

Agreed... superchargers can be tuned to a certain extent with pulley changes and yes, top-fuel and funny draggers use'em, but they don't run on pump gasoline. And yes, turbos aren't a hundred percent free hp. If you stick with regular gas, turbos still produce more power - look at the import drag scene.

From a maintenance stand-point, superchargers have the upper hand, even with modern ceramic-vaned, supper slippery bearing turbos. But, if you let them cool, and don't drive your car like your in F1, they have pretty good durability. And if you race, there are always oil coolers. Plus, they're bullet-proof enough for Rally racing .

As for Merc, yeah they have a nice racing motor thanks to heavy McLaren input, but their production engines have much to be desired. BMW and BMW Motorsports NA tuned engines are head and shoulders above similar, if not larger displacement Merc and AMG engines.

Anyway, it's definitely not black and white, and yeah I do have an anti-Merc bias and wuvvvv animalssss, ah I mean turbos .

Thanks for the fun discussion... I hope there's more .

Pjork

"In this world gone mad, we won't spank the monkey, the monkey will spank us. "