Evo X the last?
Feb 11, 2011, 04:29 PM
#32
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You guys praising diesels are forgetting something huge- Those fast diesels are all big displacement. With the whole green image, they are not going to make it big displacement. Worse, diesels don't sell in the USA, it'd make the X the last USA Evo. Let's wait and see what they really do! 
Feb 11, 2011, 05:08 PM
#33
hoping for a high revving (6kish) and lightweight diesel is the same as hoping for a fuel efficient and reliable rotary motor. Sure in theory it might exist, but it never actually happens.
Diesel fuel has a physical delay in the combustion process where a fraction of a second is required to initiate combustion. This is the reason for the relatively low rpms, as the pistons spin faster the fuel has less time to combust, eventually encroaching on that physical limitation. The R10 is probably within a few percentage points of max rpm in a diesel app, for a road car we'd be lucky to see a useable 5k.
And as far as i know, no one has found a way to make lightweight diesels. It's unfortunate, but after driving diesel cars in europe, the hype for diesel in the states is just that, especially in sports cars.
Diesel fuel has a physical delay in the combustion process where a fraction of a second is required to initiate combustion. This is the reason for the relatively low rpms, as the pistons spin faster the fuel has less time to combust, eventually encroaching on that physical limitation. The R10 is probably within a few percentage points of max rpm in a diesel app, for a road car we'd be lucky to see a useable 5k.
And as far as i know, no one has found a way to make lightweight diesels. It's unfortunate, but after driving diesel cars in europe, the hype for diesel in the states is just that, especially in sports cars.
Feb 12, 2011, 06:23 PM
#34
hoping for a high revving (6kish) and lightweight diesel is the same as hoping for a fuel efficient and reliable rotary motor. Sure in theory it might exist, but it never actually happens.
Diesel fuel has a physical delay in the combustion process where a fraction of a second is required to initiate combustion. This is the reason for the relatively low rpms, as the pistons spin faster the fuel has less time to combust, eventually encroaching on that physical limitation. The R10 is probably within a few percentage points of max rpm in a diesel app, for a road car we'd be lucky to see a useable 5k.
And as far as i know, no one has found a way to make lightweight diesels. It's unfortunate, but after driving diesel cars in europe, the hype for diesel in the states is just that, especially in sports cars.
Diesel fuel has a physical delay in the combustion process where a fraction of a second is required to initiate combustion. This is the reason for the relatively low rpms, as the pistons spin faster the fuel has less time to combust, eventually encroaching on that physical limitation. The R10 is probably within a few percentage points of max rpm in a diesel app, for a road car we'd be lucky to see a useable 5k.
And as far as i know, no one has found a way to make lightweight diesels. It's unfortunate, but after driving diesel cars in europe, the hype for diesel in the states is just that, especially in sports cars.
Specs on the 335D soon to be here-
http://wardsauto.com/ar/bmw_diesel_us/
4220rpm isnt too bad with a factory 5k rev limit-
http://www.gazettes.com/lifestyle/au...d1b22fe3c.html
I'm just saying that regardless of where it ends up factory, it can always be improved, the DMax is a prime example, crap the 12v is a better one. If its geared right and I throw a compound setup on it I'll have fun even if it does top out low.
Feb 12, 2011, 11:06 PM
#37
Balls of Steel
I don't think this will be the last Evo, but then I didn't think they'd ever kill off Ralliart, either. 
Still, I think it would be a mistake to kill off or neuter the Evo. It's Mitsubishi's halo car. Nissan has the GT-R, Chevy has the Corvette, Lexus has the LF-A, and I think there's a good case to argue that the Genesis is Hyundai's now. They're not the biggest sellers compared to the less expensive models, but they drive up interest in the brand by giving car nerds something completely awesome to talk about. Even the "Toyotafied" Subaru I hear people whine about all the time hasn't killed off the STi in some ill-advised attempt at greenwashing.
Whenever someone's talking about a Mitsu, they're usually talking about the Evo (at least in my experience). It would be horrible for them to kill off their most recognizable model at a time when they're trying to gain more market space in the U.S.
I don't mind the idea of a TDi (or even a hybrid, now that Porsche has proven that hybrids don't necessarily have to suck), but I have to wonder how that fits with the Evo's reputation as the most fun you can have with a 4-banger. Part of me thinks it would fit in for being technologically awesome to make a different engine actually work well for the Evo XI, but part of me still defines Evo = turbo 4-cylinder gasoline-powered whee.
Still, I think it would be a mistake to kill off or neuter the Evo. It's Mitsubishi's halo car. Nissan has the GT-R, Chevy has the Corvette, Lexus has the LF-A, and I think there's a good case to argue that the Genesis is Hyundai's now. They're not the biggest sellers compared to the less expensive models, but they drive up interest in the brand by giving car nerds something completely awesome to talk about. Even the "Toyotafied" Subaru I hear people whine about all the time hasn't killed off the STi in some ill-advised attempt at greenwashing. Whenever someone's talking about a Mitsu, they're usually talking about the Evo (at least in my experience). It would be horrible for them to kill off their most recognizable model at a time when they're trying to gain more market space in the U.S.
I don't mind the idea of a TDi (or even a hybrid, now that Porsche has proven that hybrids don't necessarily have to suck), but I have to wonder how that fits with the Evo's reputation as the most fun you can have with a 4-banger. Part of me thinks it would fit in for being technologically awesome to make a different engine actually work well for the Evo XI, but part of me still defines Evo = turbo 4-cylinder gasoline-powered whee.
Feb 13, 2011, 11:29 AM
#38
Agreed, there's no question mitsu should keep the evo around even if just for name recognition like the M3 has turned into. I really don't know what their product plan is for the US - but they have to do something different, and i'm not sure if a diesel sports car won't turn an already niche vehicle into a 2 year failed idea in the US.
There's no question diesels can be made fast, and i've bee shocked by what the duramax and propane injection can do, but outside of a drag strip I just don't see an enthusiast enjoying the diesel characteristics in a car.
Yes, the Audi's and Peugs are fast but that has as more to do with taking advantage of the class restrictions in ALMS than it does with diesel being a good road course platform.
There's no question diesels can be made fast, and i've bee shocked by what the duramax and propane injection can do, but outside of a drag strip I just don't see an enthusiast enjoying the diesel characteristics in a car.
Yes, the Audi's and Peugs are fast but that has as more to do with taking advantage of the class restrictions in ALMS than it does with diesel being a good road course platform.
Feb 13, 2011, 11:32 AM
#39
One thing to add to the diesel argument.
It seems it's harder and harder to find diesel fuel. I don't want to have to worry about where I'm going to get my fuel. Availability is varies in different areas, but in my immediate area, there is 1 station, and I don't necessarily trust them for quality fuel.
It seems it's harder and harder to find diesel fuel. I don't want to have to worry about where I'm going to get my fuel. Availability is varies in different areas, but in my immediate area, there is 1 station, and I don't necessarily trust them for quality fuel.
Feb 14, 2011, 07:10 AM
#40
Evolved Member
Well, see that's the thing. The global recession caused a lot of companies to leave motorsports and a few to close their specialty shops, however Mitsubishi did both and doesn't compete in anything at all right now - no WRC, no Dakar Rally. They want to change their focus and worldwide perception to a maker of small, efficient, green cars - so the Evo would not fit as a flagship of that movement. The upcoming i(-MIEV) for this country would.
Feb 14, 2011, 07:46 AM
#41
If Mitsu stops production with the X, it has a good chance of going up in value. Of course, I'm talking long term. It's the last of the Evos and its sales numbers are relatively low. The more street cred can be added to the equation, the better its shot.
Last edited by FJF; Feb 14, 2011 at 07:51 AM. Reason: typo
Feb 14, 2011, 09:00 AM
#43
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We had this discussion a while back. Extremely clean IXs are now selling for the same percentile of their original price as Supras. This is before true scarcity had a chance to set in. Frankly, I would have never guessed that the demand for the car would still be this high, this close to the end of the production run.
If Mitsu stops production with the X, it has a good chance of going up in value. Of course, I'm talking long term. It's the last of the Evos and its sales numbers are relatively low. The more street cred can be added to the equation, the better its shot.
If Mitsu stops production with the X, it has a good chance of going up in value. Of course, I'm talking long term. It's the last of the Evos and its sales numbers are relatively low. The more street cred can be added to the equation, the better its shot.
For now, the topic of whether or not the price for Evos will one day be like the Supras is irrelevant. However, the "Supra Effect" is what we would be dealing with at the moment if Mitsu says they're killing the Evo.
For example, I can see myself selling the Evo for some muscle car some day. Never had one, but always wanted to see what it's like. But, if they killed the Evo, you better believe I wouldn't give it up for anything, because the bottom line is, they are only going to get harder and harder to find.
In the end, only time will tell.
Last edited by Jrah2987; Feb 14, 2011 at 09:02 AM.
Feb 14, 2011, 11:59 AM
#44
Balls of Steel
Well, see that's the thing. The global recession caused a lot of companies to leave motorsports and a few to close their specialty shops, however Mitsubishi did both and doesn't compete in anything at all right now - no WRC, no Dakar Rally. They want to change their focus and worldwide perception to a maker of small, efficient, green cars - so the Evo would not fit as a flagship of that movement. The upcoming i(-MIEV) for this country would.
I really wish
would go back into motorsports. Sure, private teams run the Evo X on their own all the time, but that's not nearly the kind of advertisement for the car that a factory team that's doing well or that had some recognizable drivers would be. See also: Ford/Ken Block. He doesn't even win in the WRC, but he's recognizable enough to every guy who's seen the Gymkhana videos to effectively market the Fiesta as "ooh! that's Block's car!" Start back up a
factory team, stick a major name in the Evo XI and I think it'd sell well--even with a different engine that met the specs of [enter series here]. (Never mind that I don't think that'll happen, but it's a nice thought.)
Feb 14, 2011, 01:42 PM
#45
Evolved Member
Even then, I think that would be a mistake. Even Toyota's looking to bring something sporty back into its line right now, so axing the sportscar would be the complete opposite of what most of the other major companies are doing. The economy's (hopefully) recovering and more of the folks who've always wanted a [insertcarhere] are going to be able to actually buy them again.