oh, and by the way.

winning is winning.. are you supposed to be vin diesel or something?

i dont know about you, but i think i speak for a large population of the evoM crowd when i say that i'm not buying this car and spending $30-35K to "win" anything. i am going to drive this car because i enjoy driving, i want performance, i want the safety of AWD, the practicality of four doors, a comfortable and functional interior, and looks that could kill. simple.

i cant afford the risk of "winning" on the street against anything- let alone an Evo. i dont need any more near-fatal car accidents or monster insurance premiums at this point in my life, nor do i see myself spending my weekends at a track unless i do so for business. i and many other people- am buying this car (as i mentioned above) for the sheer thrill of driving a nice, safe, quick, practical sports car. for some, that car is the evo and for others, that car is the sti. im sorry to tell you, but preferences are an inherent characteristic of personality.

needless to say, i rest my case. if you still have a comment- keep it to yourself. you're obviously not ready to acknowledge anyone elses opinion.

 

Sure you did. But I can just as easily say that Mitsu has done a good job at bringing the Evo in at a lower price point, not sacrificing its raw, untamed uncomprimising form to produce the best bang for the buck in performance the American public has to choose from. That's why everyone should buy an Evo instead of fooling with an STi. Your post is the opposite, touting creature comforts and day to day convenience as reasons why an STi is better. Both are opionions, but your post comes off as if you're stating facts as to how Mitsu has mistakenly brought the wrong car to market, and doing potential buyers a disservice. Then you go on to say that the 2.5L gives the STi incredible potential, when the tuners have made the EVO champion HANDS DOWN. When is this so called "potential" going to kick in? How long do STi buyers have to wait for that? I truly don't think the STi is that much more comfortable or more practical then an Evo. To me, a Lexus or Mercedes is comfortable. So are BMWs and Caddys. I don't see why people think they two are night and day apart, they just read into what the mags tell them. Both are tuner cars, one just has to be "more" then the other, especially when they are compared head to head with no other reference.

For all we know it may not even be Mitsu's fault. It could be just some beuracratic EPA red tape bullsh!t from the Feds holding them up. Maybe they just want to make sure the cars are 100% to avoid some early recall snafu, or make sure they are all in place so everyone gets their allotments around the same time.

 

Then state your opinion without all the nonsense rhetoric as back up.

 

david, i have been a huge fan of the evo and will continue to be for years to come. i am not knocking on its value or its performance potential. believe me on that.

as for your comment on the market. i will continue to disagree. go to the u.k. and sit inside of an FQ340. that is what the highest trim level should reflect in the u.s. comfort, practicality, looks, and sick power. we are far from that with what mitsu of america is giving us. i am tired of beating this dead horse, so lets move on to the line of crap you brought up.

as for the "potential" of the sti.. you should do some homework before you talk. the spec-c has kicked the crap out of the evo fq320 already. check out speed magazine, issue #10. i am not saying one is better than the other (you seem to be the one presenting that arguement). in case you haven't noticed, it is an ongoing competition between two equally matched companies. one year, one car is better- the next year, the other one is. that is the way it is.. it is simple economics. all i am saying is that for the typical driver, not the "racer", the sti seems to be more practical. dont even waste my time disagreeing with that.

as for the EJ257 (2.5L Boxer-4).. this usdm sti is the only market, ever, to receive that motor. with displacement alone it holds an advantage. i am sure the potential is unrealized. once jun comes up with some quality forged internals and someone puts out a high quality garrett ball-bearing turbo upgrade (AMS Motorsports Quality), you will wake up from your naive little world and see that the evo is not the only bang for the buck out there.
remember, i am specifically talking about the sti's engine not comparing the two.

done.

 

grow up. learn to accept peoples opinion and the rationale behind them.

 

You bring up European models when it suits you, but we are talking USDM. The Spec C has the 2.0L motor.

I don't care about FQs, Spec C's, none of that. I'm glad you are well versed in them, but the focus of this thread is the USDM MR. In the US market the Evo is king in the tuner wars. Period bar none. Am I wrong?

You say we should have a FQ340 when you have no idea what it takes to federalize and legalize a vehicle for the American market and call that a shortcoming for Mitsu, yet you bring up a Spec C which is also absent from this market? Do you realize you are shooting your own foot? Yes it is a ongoing battle, which Mitsubishi has won quite handily - in this country (and mostly abroad). When is Subaru going to win?

Blah blah blah, once Jun this, HKS that, 2.5L's will rule. Yah, okay, whatever - just hopes and dreams, man. Keep the faith.

 

Have any of you stopped to realize if you have read an OFFICIAL release statement from Mitsu about the 05's or the MR? Or are all of you so fckn pent up in anticipation based on Internet speculation? I think the latter is true.

You all read the boards, know the car is coming, and like the typical impatient overindulging Americans that you(we) are, need the damn car NOW!!!!! You're all ME FIRST AND THE GIMME GIMMES (band).

I work for a MAJOR player in the international auto industry. Just like ANY manufacturer (Mitsu included) we do not release OFFICIAL pricing on a model until a couple DAYS before it ships to dealers. We do not release OFFICIAL ship dates until, well, until they fckn ship.

We have estimated dates we give dealers. But you know what? They are ESTIMATES. There are a TON of factors involved in a model rollout.

EVERY one of you women need to chill out and breathe. The cars will come. And so what if the 05's don't arrive in mid 04. Most brands' models don't. That is a domestic habit. We have a bunch of new 05's coming out and half or more won't be out until XX,2005. Live with it. You want to cut off your nose to spite yourself and go buy an STI, go ahead. I hope you enjoy Evolution taillights from your marginally better interior.

 

No doubt. Go pollute Ford's fansites with this nonsense. "I WANT MY new body MUSTANG NOW DAMMIT! WHEREeeWHEN's the COBRA coming?"

 

umm spooling evox.. i think u need to to a bit of research. ths sti internals are considerably weaker than the evo internals. people are having problems pasing 400 crank hp on stock internals, and the fastest turbo upgrade sti is 11.4 seconds. the sti turbo is trash. a fully moded sti on stock turbo cant pass 400 crank hp. my evo is makin over 420 hp on stock turbo, and im gettin my intercooler and hotside and ill be makin about 465 crank hp. turbo upgraded evos are makin over 750 crank hp and runnin 9's. there is no comparison between the 4g63 and the us sti motor (ej25). the real sti motor 2.0l from japan and europe is about on par with 4g63.

i love how people always think ej25 is a better motor JUST because it is 2.5l. SUbaru cut corners when makin it. its a slightly stronger forester engine. thats all. and the turbo they used is too small. its nothing compared to the twin scroll 16g used in the evos.

despite subaru's 1 yr of scca membership. they are just as bad with canceling warrantys for competition use.

btw the us evo is much faster on a track than the sti. the evo is a pure drivers car.. the steering is 10x better than the mushy sti steering. the sti is a better daily driver car for someone that wants a fast car for fun. True race nuts wil buy the evo over the sti everytime.

 

Not to jump into this little tussle, or get but I want to make a few points here:

1. This market (U.S) would not be a good environment for the FQ versions offered in the UK, which would raise the price to at least high $40's if not into the $50k range. Just witness the reaction by people on this board about the MR being (GASP!) $35k!! So I applaud Mitsu in being able to bring the car spirit mostly intact at an affordable price stateside.

2. I think subaru made a big mistake not bringing over the 2.0 Spec C version. In my opinion, it will be quite some time before the EJ257 will have anywhere near the tuning potential the 4g63 has. Witness also in the MT article they thought the car felt "detuned" because of the new software version meant to decrease pinging. More evidence they are still really sorting the motor out. As of RIGHT NOW, the Evo is FAR easier to tune CHEAPLY. Even without dropping $3k+ on a ball bearing turbo.

... And returning back to this thread... The people who can't wait will spring for the STi, as similar as they are. And deciding between the two is like politics, arguments can be made for both. As for the STi being more practical, I gotta waste your time on that one, I don't see it. The Sti is no Cutlass Ciera by any means, and the 05 STi I drove felt as stiff as my 03 (a good thing! )

How Mitsu decides on these crazy relase dates for the Evo models is anyone's guess. Maybe it has something to do with the tides and moon phases...

 

lol my question is why is spoolingEVOx still posting on this forum. Dude just go buy your Sti and join the other forum so you can bash the Evo MR and talk bad about the company with all your new Sti owners in the other forum for taking to loooooong to bring your Evo MR here to the states!!!! LOL LOL

I love this forum, sometimes it's like a internet soap opera!!!

 

pjork-master....I don't get it!???? HA! You tell me even the dealers don't get it (the hold out on prcing I am presuming). I am part of a dealership, yes a Mitsubishi dealership! 95% of most dealership people (yes, mitsubishi too) could really give 2 $hits about certain(evo) cars. To them it is just a car...just like a galant, accord, caravan, or dodge ram. It makes them money. The other 5 percent are like me who have a love and extreme interest for this car and will wait for it. I did it once and will do it again!

The amount of Evos they(Mitsubishi) sell really isn't as important as the amount of Galants and Endeavors they sell. The Evo is an image car. People will buy them regardless if you have some childish issue with them(mitsubishi).

If you are buying some overpriced german crap, why are you even posting in this forum and complaing about a car that you are not even going to consider buying???????????????

Point me in the direction of a website or a form of literature that is officially endorsed by Mitsubishi that says the car will be here in september, or even october! Every place that I have read says fall of 04'. If I have read my calender right....fall started today! Quit spreading misinformation!

 

Remember the RS? When did the magazines say it was going to be out? When did it hit the dealerships? Keep waiting.

 

I guess it really isn't that unusual for a manufacturer to wait this long for a MSRP release. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough but the 05 Tacomas are supposed to be on lots now according to SCC and I can't find an MSRP for the X-Runner anywhere!

And to kind of join this argument a little... Saying that the STI is better because of the .5 liter and it only needs some new internals really isn't logical. There are a ton of "big" fours on the market. What makes a "legendary" production engine is the fact that you don't have tear the thing apart to get it to a "bulletproof" level. Rebuilding an engine is not an inexpensive or simple task and needs to be looked at as more then just a cost of parts ordeal.

Oh, and I've said it before I'll say it again. This build/interior quality is subjective BS. It has more to do with shiny brochures and interior colors then the truth.. These cars really have the same interior layout. They have a different feel when driving though. Either you like the STI or the Evo more, it's easy to find a favorite but it's hard to say that they aren't both great.

 

The Evo still has the same advantages over the STi as it always had. Better handling, better seats, better steering and steering wheel. Rock solid structure and a more easily modded, proven motor. The Evo six-speed is far better shifting according to Evo Neal. The interior is plastic on both cars, like all cars except the very most expensive ones. With the MR I can reasonably expect to have a rattle free interior. In the STi the windows will squeak and rattle. I believe with less skilled drivers the gap would widen between the STI and MR. Mitsu is including free maintenance with the MR for 48 months or so. We don’t get JDM Evos, We don’t get true Type-Cs either. We never will.

I would say unless HIDs a real important to you wait for a '05 VIII +TORSEN, +ACD, +10.5 Turbo housing, -HIDs. Unless you get a great deal on a '04. Go for a '05 VIII.

I met the Evo project manager at the Socal #13. He is the visionary at the helm. He is trying to get us the functional items from the JDM MR and he has done a great job. The lights and the rest of the cosmetics can be done by the owners. The Mitsu marketeers realize that most people wanted the blacked out lights but for a run of 1000 cars it makes no economic sense to spend the money to get DOT approval. Would you rather pay $34K for an MR with std lights or 36K for one with blacked out lights? Mitsu USA is trying to balance cost vs. performance. I will take the TORSEN, ACD and improved turbo then paint my own lights, thank you very much.

Evos are not built in model years but in generations. That is why you rarely see Evos in the rest of the world as referred to as say a '96 Evo. They are built in one or two runs over an 18 – 24 month span. The Mitsu is trying hard to synchronize the builds into the EPA model year designation, but it will take time. My MR is stuck on the same boat, in the same port as all the rest right now. The wait is killing me also. I wish they would release the MSRP, like everyone else, so I can work on the financing. The wait is just marketing all the companies do it.

FQ type vehicles can NEVER come here. UK emissions and safety regs allow these types of car to exist. The UK has two versions of the Evo. The 260, the kinder gentler Evo with a small wing and the MR. The FQs are packages that are dealer installed after emissions testing. The Colt Car Company handles the warranties for the FQs after conversion. We have 3 different Evo choices here in the US. VIII, MR and RS not bad compared to the two UK Evos or the single choice of USDM STi.

If you dying for MR FQ400 performance just have Shiv build you a One Lap Evo copy.

Go Packers!