ditto. The most likely scenario is that you were running to much advance and the engine just detonated itself to death.

Shiv

 

The #3 and 4 plugs were melted, #3 was just severly melted.
As far as timing, Iactually had less timing than what was flashed by Al, so I doubt that.
It could be what MJ mentioned earlier. I never ran a log in 5th gear. I could have been in a cell on the fuel table at a load site thatdidn't have enough fuel.
Here's my plan:
1. Check entire fuel system to insure it's working properly, if it is, then most likely the problem was with the tune, possibly purely mechanical.
2. Pull engine, tear it down and inspect.
3. Rebuild
4. Start tune from sctrach, starting VERY conservative, conducting logs in all gears to insure proper. Check plugs
5 Install fuel pressure gauge, possibly better egt gauge, maybe one for each cyl.
or get a good knock sensor with an alarm. The sun was out and I never saw the flashing CEL from the UTEC

Thanks for all the input, any ideas help.

 

Good ideas !

Did you consider sticking with the OEM based ignition timing and knock functions in the future ?

 

well I guess its not the injectors then. test the fuel pump as you said and see if it is working... I know a shop (cant remember now) that you send fuel pump and injectors too and they test them for you.

 

Sorry to hear about this Bishiboy. I'm sure you will be back again tearing up the AZ roads.

What concerns me is the fuel pump scenario. Most of us are running the Walboro 255. In fact, you installed mine at the last LA tune.

If these pumps can fail and cause such catastrophic damage instantly, I would like a better pump. They flow enough fuel, but do they perform 100% all the time and not just drop dead after so many hours of use?

I was reading the article on the Evo 8 MR FQ-400 and read that it uses a ZYTEC high pressure fuel pump stock from Mitsubishi for this 400 HP beast.

Anyone know about this pump?

 

Those spark plugs were destroyed through detonation. It's pretty clear by looking at them. That's the only way the in-cylinder temps could be high enough to melt the tips off. It also looks like plug #4 was smashed by a chunk of the piston breaking off and rattling around in the combustion chamber. Only detonation can do this. Whether that detonation was caused by over-advance or running to lean is the question I think. Doesn't the utec have a knock sensor that can guard against things like this? I've had several cars pop the hoses off their FPRs during dyno runs (which results in a sudden 25psi loss in fuel pressure!) and have yet to see a disaster of this type. Usually, the knock sensor kicks in quickly, power dies and you look around the hood to find something wrong.

Shiv

 

I also have been in cars which had either the fuel pressure reg vac hose either pop off - OR - had a fuel pump fail while I was tuning them. Also - on my own car I once literally ran bone dry on fuel going down the track in the top of 4th as the one walbro pick up was dry after all the fuel went to the back of the tank. In each of thse cases, the fuel starvation immeditaley resulted in a significant power reduction and the stock ecu pulling timing. In all cases - no engine damage resulted.

It would be interesting to see what kind of knock control paramater settings bishiboy had set.

 

Shiv,

Yes the Utec has knock control using the stock knock sensor, but if the user plays with the defualt settings he can make the knock sensor unsuable.

 

That's true but the question I was trying to ask was why didn't it work? Did bishiboy re-adjust the default parameters. Or do the default parameters not work very well. If they don't work very well, how does the end-user (professional tuner or casual user) re-adjust them to work well without trial and error? This has always been my point of contention with user-programmable knock control devices that are used with motors designed to run high boost. Unlike low boost or NA applications, you simply can't tune them through trial and error (read: a lot of detonation along the way).

Shiv

 

Mine at default works Perfect , heck you can even tell it how much timing to pull when knock is detected. Right now the default settings is like stock. I don't know if Bishiboy changed his, i think i remember reading that he changed his default settings.

 

I don't think I've ever seen a MTBF listed for the Walbros, but I certainly know countlessly more people with 0 problems than those that did (hand full). They certainly can fail...doesn't mean all Walbros are a problem waiting to happen. Historically, the Walbros are pretty reliable, and anything can fail...even the stock fuel pump, FQ-400 or not.

Yes, but if it continues to knock at the max retard setting and you continue to drive through it, nothing isn't going to save it I would think the default 8° max retard would be enough to overcome just about any knock, but there are probably other circumstances. I know if I see any knock at all, it retards exactly the same time/amount as the ECU does....the UTEC and ECU timing chart lines are perfect mirrors of each other during knock retard on my logs using the default knock parameters...

 

I suppose the common consensus sounds like fuel starvation, now you have to spend a little time to find out why, so you don't have to go through this scenario again..

I agree with BlackEVO, the knock retard does line up pretty well with stock, you'd have to have something go horribly wrong if it continues to detonate after retarding 8 degrees.. FPR issue, Fuel pump issue, general lean condition, obstruction in a fuel line, etc..

 

So you are choosing to believe what is read on the hyperterminal screen over what empirical evidence otherwise suggests?

Former WRX UTEC user, Dave

 

No, I have enough information on my personal car to see that the knock readings do follow the ECU's.. That doesnt say it applies to every car..

The other part, well, we really don't know what went wrong yet, so I can't really make any assumptions about timing or something going horribly wrong with the tune or the UTEC.. But so far all we know is there's melted plugs, likely a melted and broke piston, and high EGT's.. And we don't know what could have failed.

But I do know enough about the UTEC to know that a bad tune can bite you... My gut is just saying to follow a fuel system problem..

 

I will be checking basic fuctions of fuel system the next two days. I sence a bit of fiction between guys trying to help me out. Hold off on jumping to conclusions until I check out my stuff. I post in a new thread when I find (or don't find out anything).