The knock link is super good for several reasons

1 - it uses its own method for detemining knock

2 - its adjustable - I set it on highest

3 - You get a degree - its gets higher with more knock - top red light is DANGER

I swear by it

 

A Knock Link? Have you ever taken one apart?

 

No need Shiv - I swear by it - its a really good unit and it has saved my *** many times

I like to watch those green lights blinking and when I start to see amber I get conerend

A quick flash to red and its very dangerous

I love that product

 

Thanks!

Please do...always interested in seeing more data. Maybe start a new thread for that? I think we hijacked bishiboy's thread badly...sorry bishiboy.

Well, that's all reassuring news....sounds like almost exactly like the map I have right now. I am running 7.5° at peak boost up to 9° @ 5000, drop it back .5-1° @ 5000-5500 and then ramp up to 19.5 at 7000. Good to know I am on par with your settings until I can get on a dyno and fine tune it

Agreed that SES light is weak on the Evo and you'd be lucky to see it in the daylight even if you were looking right at it. I'd like to find a way to connect a SuperBright LED (or small cluster of T-1s) to that output for a little more noticeable warning....like right along the edge of the gauge cluster hood or in the tach itself. I don't think that I have missed a knock event yet from feel alone, but it would be nice to have something a little more attention getting.

 

Agreed

 

This is a good idea, i will be experimenting with this today along with my shift light setup for the Utec.

 

Again - hooking up a super bright LED to the UTEC output is not adding an EXTRA safegaurd to your system

What I like aboit the knock link is that its totally seperate and virtualy fool proof for detecting knock

 

Yeah I agree with that.. Though I use the Tuner's knock sensor.. Any idea where I can purchase link products? They have had the Lambdalink Digital product for some time but never knew where I could pick that up.. FWIW the TurboXS tuner has audible and visual knock detection and its own sensor that operates completely independantly of the ECU's (And UTEC) knock sensor...

 

Al are you posting this info?.

 

Yeah, I get that...I was just talking about at least being able to notice the knock warning we already have.


Please let me know what you find out...


Not too many links here, but: http://www.link-electro-usa.com/distributors.html

 

I'd like to know where have you guys put the extra knock sensor (tuner) to avoid other noises.

And Jack just a suggestion, I know that you don't use your your stereo but I have an aftermarket unit with line-in and I can hook up my tuner headphones output to my stereo and so don't actually have to wear the headphones.

 

Well, the easiest place is the engine tab on the front of the head.. BUt it picks up lots of valvetrain noise, but its the perfect location to hear detonation on the most likely lean cylinder if you have a tuning problem.. The best place is near the stock location on the back of the block.. FWIW its nearly impossible to get to without being a contortionist..

 

anyone mind to show a pic of the exact best mount location for knock sensor?

 

OK, so why is the default for maximum retard only 8 degrees? Why isn't it 30 degrees (the maximum), to help protect against catastrophic failures? I mean, if the UTEC pulls 8 degrees, and still detects knock, why would you want it to stop pulling timing? I agree that the UTEC's method of pulling timing works well under normal circumstances (like some random bit of knock), but Shiv got me wondering why we have such a low default limit on how much timing can be pulled. Anyone have thoughts on this?

 

Well, first things first, its an adjustable parameter so you can allow it to pull more timing than 8 degrees, also under peak load/boost, more than 8 degrees(4 or 5 on some cars)would likely place the ignition event AFTER TDC.. In other words its not necessary, at high RPM the max advance you would use on a very aggressive tune can be 21-23degrees, pulling 8 degrees from those would be more than enough to stop a detonation issue with anything but a severe lean condition.. The problem is, besides mistakes or a bad tune, you should not ever get that lean unless you lose fuel pressure, or injectors.. UNfortunately I don't know that you'd be able to save the engine in those circumstances unless you catch it and shut down immediately (I suppose that could be a feature that can be added, but it could result in something more dangerous, such as loss of control of the car at the worst possible time)

If you find you need to pull more than a few degrees to stop detonation, you have a much bigger problem with the engine tune, its likely tuned too aggressively for the conditions.. However this is why we have easy map switching. Most people should never tune too aggressively on pump gas if they do, there's always the possibility of doing damage. But If you have the power to make changes, you also need to excercise restraint.

Things the factory ECU does is for safety reasons, and I generally agree with that for most people, why? because those safety features can compensate for mistakes or poor tuning. And the truth is, although these tools are intended for the end user to work with. I couldn't realistically expect someone with little or no experience to want to make these changes until they fully understand the risks.

The more absolute control you have, the better things work most of the time, but the more horribly things can go wrong if you make a mistake.

Catastrophic failures don't normally happen, but they do happen, and its unlikely that under load, producing lots of power, that damage can be prevented just by letting the ECU make the decisions.. Remember any of these tools, including the ECU, are designed to accomodate the most common problems, when something unexpected happens, you can't be certain that any engine control will save you in time..

I can see the necessity of having these sorts of "safety" features if your using a downloaded map, since tuning is about TUNING.. Using someone elses settings with no knowledge of where it originated from and for what components, and the simple fact that every car even with identical configurations runs a little diffferently..

When you deal with the stock ECU, you just can't guarantee consistency, at any time it can be floating through different maps for ignition and timing.. How can you be sure that the tune you do on one day, will be safe on another day? Oh, you can reflash the ECU to flatten the maps.... But you would have then removed the one safety feature that made the ECU desirable..

The one major advantage of the UTEC is it was designed from the ground-up for tuning a car, and its design is specific to the EVO, it wasn't a universal device that was adapted to run with our car..

In any case, I agree with a few statements previous to this post.. 1, although the factory knock sensor and the UTEC are a good indicator of knock, don't rely on it as your only indicator.. hook up and test the Tuner's knock sensor and set it very sensitive, or get a knock link, the knock link is basically a very simple 'discretionary sound trigger' device, but if it hears noise, its likely something you want to be aware of.. Its also VERY VERY VERY important to have an EGT gauge, and watch it closely when you make your first runs, a sudden jump in EGT's may indicate either a very lean condition, or the engine pulling alot of timing.. both are bad things and you would need to shut down before you did damage..

I feel terrible for what happened with this engine, it was an honest mistake and could have been avoided if the scaling features were documented better.. But under the circumstances, I don't think anything short of not making that run would have avoided the damage, the car was just running too lean and it was just too easy of a mistake that any of us could have made until these settings were clarified, honestly I wish I was the one who had blown up my motor and discovered this before anyone else had to though.