I speak from first hand experience when I say that although the base maps are set up slightly differently on the IX when we had a 2.3L car with a Gt35 R and making 540 whp on the dyno we suggested to thye customer that he add a full fuel system and a V pro

At 540 whp we wre beyond the resolution of the stock maf sensor and beyond my confort level for something that a person intends to drive every day witih the stock ecu

At those power levels I am personally more comfortable with the precision of a stand alone ecu

Keep in mind I have one customer - Gill a/k/a Superz who had a Gt35 R who made 540 whp on the reflash and who drove it every day without incident. The guy is a professional mechainc so I think he was savy enough to not try and run high boost on pump gas etc. His car ran very well and had good drieability.

 

I know Super Z personally, his car was VERY fast.

What is COBB Access port and what advantage would it offer over a Dynoflash?

 

I have the AccessPort for my WRX. It is a hand held unit that re-flashes the ECU with staged base maps including anti theft, fuel economy, and valet maps along with the staged upgrade maps for different octane fuels. For some extra $$$ you can get the street tuner software and use your laptop for REAL TIME tunning of the stock ECU along with data logging capabilities.

The AccessPort system re-does pretty much the whole ECU map so that your real time tunning of fuel and ignition curves is NOT stored in the flashable memory, it is stored in the volitile memory of the ECU where fuel trims are stored in the stock configuration. That is why it is real time tunable rather than having to tweak the map and upload, do a run then tweak the map and upload again..... much faster tunning method.

Keith

 

Wow, Impressive. Thanks Keith.


Al, does your Flash involving that cable offer the same tools? Can we tune with our laptops and data log like say a DSM LINK?

 

Just so you know, Our ECU already does that, there is volatile ram where the maps, trims, troublecodes, etc.. It will be possible to do this in the future using ECUFlash, but the Accessport should have a nicer interface.

When the ECU is initialized, it copies a ton of runtime data into that ram, with the right tools it can be altered in realtime, plus much of it can be traced using the shared memory.. Later after you get a tune you like, you can write it as a reflash..

The Accessport should be similar, and from what I've heard, their planning on officially announcing something this month at MOD2006.

 

The old original RWD. Those were the days. Yes, the car ran 9.41 at 147 mph on the stock, TMO chipped ECU, VPC and a GCC. If the point is going fast on a stock ECU I'd have to say I hold that record and in this day and age probably always will. The tube chassis Talon ran 7.8 at 174 mph on the stock Mitsubishi ECU, TMO chip, VPC and a GCC. Very crude looking back on it. There was a ton of power missing from the combination in the area under the curve compared to what was made with the AEM EMS when we switched over.

It's funny now looking at the VPC and such. Back in the day the only widebands were extremely expensive and nobody had them. So you tuned it the best you could from 02 volts and the cars were freaking fast. Now I have these same cars coming in here getting tuned and I am afraid to even make a pull on the dyno with them when I see how lean the AFR's go. We have a good long time customer with a really nice 1G DSM. Has run a VPC for years. This is the same guy I was talking about the emission testing earlier. He was in and when I dyno'd the car I told him, "Dude, take this car home and park it until you can get an EMS on it". He says, "David I've been driving it like this forever." Turned into a discussion of "How the hell did they stay together at this AFR." The car was 13:1 AFR's. No wonder the old VPC made so much power.

 

Sometimes I think we're being a bit overly cautious about some of the things we do, with good reason of course, but I have run a few high horsepower supercharged and carbureted cars for years without problems, I like to think that it was just luck.. but we all did this stuff and went fast, and rarely blew up stuff so who knows..

Heck even knock was something people were ignorant of at the time.. at least the need to keep the numbers so low they didnt register..

 

Government mandated emissions testing is a big PONZI scheme to milk the taxpayers for more money.

I'll get off my soapbox now as far as political discussions go, and let me say that in Minnesota we had it and they abandoned it after about 5 years. Thank God!

 

The end of the thread is:AEM EMS is good,but a little pricy and won't pass emmison ,but have a lot of advance function like anti lag ,on board datalogging memory ,NLS shifting ingnition cut ;Stock ECU:Cheap ,will pass emmison ,still have room to grow.So,wait and see what will stock ECU do.

 

Hey, if you want a motec m800 I got one for sale, with a US configuration file I made. Will start right up in your car as it has been tested throughly.

It has Advanced functions enabled, and 1 meg logging.

Will also provide you with customer support.

Thanks, Andy

 

how much? dont really need the customer support though any sensors come with it? or were you using stock sensors... do you have a wiring diagram?.... oh wait is this the plug and play one if so not interested sorry

 

the particular one im talking about is the PNP. it comes with the gm AIT and kavico SSI type 5 bar.

if you want the gold box m800, i can get that too. although i recommend the pnp, as it greatly simplifies installation, does the same thing, and is cheaper.

if you're still interested please send me a pm.

 

im under the impression that the plug and play doesnt have nearly the cababilities and inputs/outputs as the gold box, oh and im pretty sure it doesnt work for the evo IX correct me if im wrong?

 

If your car won't see much driving on the street, and its exempt from OBD-II inspections (either your in a location that doesn't bother doing it, or its a race car) then I think your best off with a standalone.

To specifically answer your question, YOU CAN INDEED scale 1600cc injectors, you would probably be using 1000 as the scaling and spending a bit of time adjusting the latency, the remaining tuning you would do with the fuel maps and Accel Enrichment table to get your drivability and tune in check..

Generally the scale value represents a value 10-30% lower than the rated value on the injector, (Injector dead time and latency are the reason the value varies)

Now my other thought is on a stock ECU, 1600cc injectors would be way bigger than most anything you would typically use.. there are guys with 800cc injectors and GT35r's making over 550whp on a safe tune and reasonable IDC's.

Kinda reminds me of the days when I'd see muscle car guys throw a 1050 dominator on a small block chevy when most would only need a 750 double pumper at most.

If your at the point where you really do need injectors that large, I would guess that the car likely wouldn't be getting too much street use anymore anyway, and would steer you towards the standalone. HOWEVER, knowing that there are those of us who want to prove that you can push the limits with the stock ECU, I'd like to see someone break 1000whp using a stock ECU and of course an aftermarket MAF/MAP setup. I'll bet its possible.

I'd love to see AMS build one of those Monsters to make those numbers on a tuned stock ECU with the supporting mods...


I honestly don't think this thread is pointless, but its overwhelmingly pro ECU for street driving, and thats something most people don't want to hear for whatever reason.

 

if you read my post i only pan on using the stock ecu long enough to get the motec M800 sorted out, thanks for the information about the injectors though thats a big help. i will also hope to be proving the power/drivability difference between a motec and the stock ecu at that level.

the reason for the 1600cc injectors is i have a thing for experimenting with alternative fuels specifically methonal. i did it on my last car and i plan to do the same with this one, although i will never regularly run the car on methonal i will take it to the track at least once with pure methonal in the tank. i really have no reason to do this as im sure someone will point out but i just like to show that its possible... and i already have the injectors so why waste money on smaller ones when these work just fine. another great thing about large injectors (although it hardly applys) you can have a much shorter injector open time and get more fuel going through the open intake valve instead of spraying on closed valves. this increases fuel economy and power its something we do for FSAE's endurance races since fuel economy is a scored event and with the restrictor every % of effeciancy makes a big difference. but like i said hardly applicable