I've read every thread and this may be redundant but I'm wondering how everyone likes the L-Jetro for every day use?

Does the fan problem do anything annoying other than run a bit hot in traffic?

Does it have any other driveability issues?

Also, does it have any Wideband O2 compatibility?

Overall, what are your impressions of it compared to some of the piggybacks offered?

Thanks.

 

I would like to know as well...I am in the same boat as MrBonus having read all these threads, just seems like not many people have them yet. Overall they seem like a great unit, but I wonder how easy it is to truely adjust settings and such.

 

My Power FC was reflashed by Apexi and the fan now runs at 85 or 86 degrees (whatever the stock setting is). I didn't have any issues before it was done with overheating though, not even in heavy traffic. I would expect that new versions come from the factory like this. I'm not sure why they wouldn't. My only complaint is that Apexi was very slow to return my ECU. It took almost 2 weeks.

Drivability is better than stock. Power delivery is smoother and with no dips.

DOn't know about the wideband. My paln is to purchase one separately.

It is a great unit and I am very pleased. Unfortunatley, I am not educated enough in the matter to give you a true comparison between the Power FC and some of the piggy back units.


My understanding is it is much easier to tune and adjust than the other ECU replacements out there or piggy-backs for that matter. You can make adjustmjents on the fly with the Power FC Commander (assuming you know what your doing). You don't need a laptop. It is an easy menu system with simple adjustments., but I don't really mess with it because I don't know what I'm doing.

The Power FC will gain popularity as people come to the EVOs from RX7s and other cars where the unit is more popular.


Hope that helps guys. Silversurfer is the resident Power FC guy, so maybe he can add some more insight.

 

Thanks, Robert.

That was just what I was looking for. I'm suprised it hasn't become more popular with its ease of use. I especially like the fact that the tuning can be done without a laptop.

 

I just spoke to XS Engineering and am dissapointed in Apexi's layout for their distribution. While they were nice and answered my questions, I'm still concerned with the monopoly Apexi has placed on their tuners.

There are NO Power Excel dealers on the East Coast and the Commander offers little to no ability to tune (Other than small increments up to 15% fuel) for the end user. You must have your base maps installed at an official dealer which is fine... If you live in Texas or California. I, the guy on the East Coast, am somewhat ****-out-of-luck if I find the base map unacceptable or need a new map on the fly.

I can see why the AEM is much more popular.

 

Hey Robert,

Where did you buy your Power FC from? Who loaded in the initial map?

I'm curious how some non-Power FC vendors are selling these things as they have no way to edit the base maps.

 

I bought the Power FC from a local shop in Austin. They tune using the Commander but are in the process of getting the Power Excel (I think that is the name of Apexi's Laptop tuning software). They've added almost 150 hp to another car with a larger turbo and injectors using the Commander. It is very impressive.

 

I'm hearing conflicting information regarding the capabilities of the Commander. I was told by XS that there is NO way to compensate for larger injectors with the Commander and the fuel/timing corrections that can be made are small at best.

I really, really want one but I wish someone could give me a complete answer. I wouldn't doubt a shop would downplay the abilities of the Commander just to sell a 150 dollar flash.

Thanks again for all of your input.

 

Ian,

The short answer is no, you don't need to send off the Power FC for retunning every time you add modifications even for different injectors.
I have found that the base MAP in the Power FC is really good but the fuel curve and timming is almost identical to the stock ECU, accept they added another 5% fuel on top of that . It is plug and play but set very safe so APEXI doesn't get calls saying hey I put your ECU in and now my engine is all blowed up!

To get the most out of it, it needs to be tunned. I found you can start by pulling around 5% across the board. Then even more in the high RPM/load points where the stock ECU goes super rich. But then you also need to pull back a bit on the timming because it's just a little too aggressive especially in the high RPM/load points. There haven't been to many L-jetros out there yet, so no need to share tunning maps. Once I get the datalogit working I will try to post up maps for reference.

Since a few people have asked for my feedback on the ECU I have typed up a fairly long review. So since you asked for it, grab a cup of coffee and take look at my next post .

 

After looking at all of the stand alone ECU's and piggy back systems available for the EVO8, I would say that they all have certain pros and cons. If I did not go with the Power FC I probably would have went with the AEM. It has a great user interface and is by far the most flexible/powerful system on the market. But all of that power and flexibility can also be very complicated for the average user, and it does not seem to be completely sorted out yet.
The benefits with the Power FC is that it does nearly every thing you could want or need, it's very easy to use, and APEXI has got this thing so unbelievably well sorted out. Other than the initial fan control issue, I just cannot find a single bug or hiccup with its use or operation, plus the commander is a very nice feature.

As you may know I have an L-jetro, IMO it is a great stand alone ECU. I also have a commander and limited access to the power excel tuner interface. It is awesome, I really wish they would release it to the general public, unfortunately it is part of APEXI's marketing strategy , so don't hold your breath waiting for that.
I have also done a lot of tuning with just the commander, and I have to say that you can do a HELL of a lot with just that.
You certainly DO NOT need to send your box back for a reflash every time you make a change. Here is what you can do with just the commander:

1. Complete injector mapping

2. Complete ignition mapping

3. MAF sensor selection and MAF map corrections (not that you would need too)

4. Injector timing and lag correction (for installing larger injectors)

5. Boost control (If you have the optional controller)

6. Accelerator enrichment (AKA acceleration pump)

7. Test correction: overall fuel and/or ignition timing corrections can be applied to the entire map for test and tune. Also nice for say you get a tank of bad gas, just go in and take 1 or 2 degrees of timing out across the board, or your running race gas, lean the map out across the board and bump the timing up. This can all be done from one quick easy setting, almost like flipping a switch.

8. Water temp fuel correction for cold starting and running.

9. Rev limit

10. Return RPM for deceleration with/without AC on.

11. Idle RPM with/without AC on.

12. Sensor/switch display (great for troubleshooting).

13. Vital engine function/sensor monitoring with peak hold memory, such as:

* Injector duty cycle
* Ignition timing
* MAF KRM frequency (air flow values)
* Engine RPM
* Speed
* Knock Level (stock knock sensor)
* Water temp
* Intake Air Temp
* Battery voltage

Another really nice feature is the Check engine light warning feature. The dash light will flash at different frequencies if:

* Fuel injectors go beyond 95% duty cycle.

* MAF values get near the max measuring value of the air flow sensor. (never happen with stock turbo)

* Best of all is the knock warning, (preset to 60, can be changed with power excel interface)

IMO that last one is really important, maybe I am tone deaf but I almost never hear when my engine is knocking. With the check engine light flashing in your face it is almost impossible to miss (even on a road course).

All this can be done with just the commander, I have seen the L-jetro with commander for as little as $1210. That is not a bad deal for what you get, especially when you consider the other options and what they cost. We have already seen people making upwards of 500WHP sucking through the stock MAF. So unless you’re going all out, I see no real benefit for the added cost and modification of the D-jetro.


If your thinking this is a lot of features to learn and understand, the AEM list is probably two or three times longer so... The power excel interface allows far more extensive access to correction factors etc. But quite frankly, I have tried playing with some of these features and wound up setting them back to the APEXI defaults because they were so perfectly set from the factory.

You can get a decent tune with just the commander, but with the power excel it goes to a hole other level with fine-tuning. With high-resolution data logging (15 channel 60ms per data point), you can find little dips and peaks in your maps that is just impossible to do with just the commander. Plus the 3d map rendering makes it very easy to find and correct erroneous dips and peaks in your maps, especially in areas you seldom use. You also cannot see the entire map at one time with the commander and making wide scale adjustments can be very cumbersome. For minor corrections though it works great.

Fear not! There is another option! It’s called the Datalogit, http://www.fc-datalogit.co.nz/ . It is a hacker version of the Power excel interface, it was designed and manufactured by a small company in New Zealand of all places. Like the Power excel interface it is a hardware/software interface that allows you access to most of the features of the Power excel tuner interface. It’s not as slick as the power excel, but it does allow all of the critical functions, such as logging, 3d map rendering, and a bunch of other features that I will not go into here. It retails for about $300. I actually have the very first datalogit for the US EVO8 (as far as I know), but since it was new for this version Power FC it did not work properly. I have just recently gotten a software update that is supposed to fix the problem, but I have been to busy/lazy to try it out yet. I will try it this weekend and let you all know when it is right.

So what are the cons?

It does control the IC water spray but you have no ability to make changes. Apparently APEXI knows best, they probably do but still…

There is no knock sensor timing retard feature. If you see knock it is up to you to ease up and correct the problem. At first I thought this was a big deal, but honestly if you tune your maps properly it’s not a big deal. Knock retard can only do so much anyway, look at those folks with the stock ECU/AFC who suffered engine damage due to knock, and the stock ECU retards the crap out of timing under knock. It’s much better to see the knock and correct the situation then blindly press on and hope the knock retard will save you. It’s still a neat feature and I wish this ECU had it.

For example; a while back I went out of town and my wife used the EVO to go to work on e day. I get in the car and when I step on it the knock warning is flashing all over the place. I quickly go in and pull 2 degrees of timing and it is fine, suspecting the problem I call the wife:

Me: Honey, did you put gas in my car?

Wife: Yes

Me: which gas did you use?

Wife: The middle one.

Well in TX we have regular, premium, and super, octane ratings are in order 87,89, and 93. Luckily my wife drives easy and she now knows what gas to put in this car.

Hopefully this gives you enough info to decide if this is the right ECU for you. Like I said, there are a number of good options out there, every one of them has pros and con's. I don't think any of them are really bad, it's just a matter of which one will work best for your situation.

 

Very nice review Silver Surfer!
Thank You!

 

Oh, one other important note.
If your buy this system from a Power excel dealer and they are down loading a preset map for you. They have the ability to lock any or all of the tuning functions available through the commander . Either they don't trust you to make your own adjustments, or they want you to have to come back to them for tunning.
If I remember correctly all of the tunning functions come unlocked from APEXI. If you buy it from an Excel dealer, make sure they will keep these functions unlocked before you buy it. The commander is so easy to use any half way decent tuner can tune with it. Of course that is assuming your friendly Excel dealer did not lock up all of the tuning features for you .
In fact I saw a sky line from CA at our local track a few years ago with a Power FC/commander. He could not tune squat because the shop had locked all of the tunning features, I thought that was BS but... Especially since it wasn't tunned right and he needed to make adjustments . BTW that car was preparing for one lap, my local track was on the scehdule that year. They wound up DNF due to a blown engine.
The datalogit can also realease these features on the commander. I am going out to the garage now to get that working.

 

Jesus. The last post cleared up ALOT for me, Eric. XS Engineering was telling me how I couldn't make ANY corrections for injectors and the fuel correction was limited to +/-15%. They must lock out quite a few features.

They're also about 150 bucks more than other non-Excel dealers.

I just wanted to make sure I'd be fine with upgraded injectors as well as a few mild bolt-ons. I want 400 WHP with a mild T04E 50 trim setup but didn't want to send it back to a dealer everytime I went with more fuel or a different turbo.

FYI, my buddy was using the hacked software for his R32 Skyline. He made 550 WHP @ 18 PSI on pump gas with a bad ignition coil (Using RX8B Ball Bearing Apexi twins).

The only thing that concerns me is the knock feature. I'll have to get comfortable with that.

Again: Thanks again! I'll be ordering mine soon. I think it'll be the perfect compromise from for a mild setup. I finally see how guys like you and Guru have been able to tune it for cams and other moderate bolt-ons.