ive seen evo IXs from vishnu making a lot more power. with just a falsh and everything else bone stock. And the XI was called a "Custom Flash" so it wasnt an off the shelf map.

 

it be interesting to see one of these custom flashed cars on the GS dyno, so we can get a real comparison going without guessing and estimating between the Vishnu and GS dyno.

 

I want to clarify that my thread has nothing to do with comparing which tune is better or what not. The reason I posted these dyno graphs were to show people the interesting results we have found between the Evo 9 and Evo 8 power curves. Unfortunately, I am unable to do an apple to apple comparison test like I wanted to. I would have to agree with Dave that mods are completely different in both cars. However, I have also read alot about people raving how great the Evo9 is with just a tune and TBE setup. Wouldn't you agree that many people on the forum often compare a stage 1 Evo9 with an Evo8 with cams?

As for as the street tune vs dyno tune....I recall some shop in the bay much prefer a "real enviornment" tune than putting the car on the dyno. To me, I would much rather have my car on the dyno than flying down the freeway over the speed limit.

I do not have a boost graph because we didn't hook up the hardware. My boost was at ~1.5 bar tapering to 1.35ish up top. The power that my car put down is pretty impressive considering not many Evos in the bay can produce the same or higher numbers on our dyno. Below is a link of all the dyno graphs of the free dyno day we held last summer. I know the temp is way different since it was done in the summer but thats the best I can do showing what most Bay Area Evos are making.

Dyno day
Our November Dyno day results

If anyone wants to compare the Evo 8 vs Evo 9 with similar mods, the closest thing I can think of is our stage 1 tune shop Evo with just a TBE shown below.

Dyno/tune was done in Aug:
2003 Evo (CA 91 octane)
Mods:
Walbro 255 pump
TBE w/o CAT
Gruppe-S Ecutek tune

Thanks,
Tom

 

from what ive seen the gruppe-s dyno reads almost exactly the same as a dd dyno. i dynoed my car at one of the last dyno days. I was leaking boost due to a loose hotside bolt and i made 318 whp at Gruppe-S. (stock turbo) after i got it fixed i made 337 on the dyno dynamics dyno. Im almost positive they read within 4-5% of each other.

 

You dynoed 318whp on the gruppe-s dyno with a stock turbo? On 91 octane? I thought you had a TME at the time?

I guess I wasn't the first to break 300whp on stock turbo on 91 on that dyno then.

What mods did you have to do 318 and then 337 on the DD?

 

IMHO - this "comparsion" means nothing

To compare one car with cams with another car without cams is idiotic as the cams add at least 25 whp

The Evo 9 in question was pulling very hard on the road and I have the data logs showing a perfect a/f and all other paramaters DEAD on on the road

It seems to me looking at the dyno sheet here that the pull on my car I tuned was at a VERY LOW boost and the comparison car the boost was maxed out

Add 2 - 3 psi of boost on the IX and the TQ curve will pick up significantly

As far as Dyno Comaprisions on this dyno my customer with road tuned won the past dyno day if I recall correctly



Remember - the road is the true environment and load the car is operated in.

When a car is dialed in 100% on the road and totally smooth pull after pull - it is very possible that when you put it on a dyno the a/f curve and dyno sheet may vary slightly as the LOAD on the dyno is only an approximation. Similarly when you tune a car on a dyno and have a deadly smooth chart in many cases when you go to the road the tune will need slight adustment to equalize the road. Usually, I leave a sufficent margin of error to allow for a safe tune on the road when using a dyno to tune.

For those questioning my the saftey of the a/f reported on the dyno - notice that the Evo 8 tune is at 11.8 / 1 a/f on peak TQ

Again to re-iterate this comaprision means nothing as the mods are totally different

 

First off, this wasn't a "comparsion", gruppe-s was posting the charts to show what his car did on the dyno and what a EVO 9 dynoed the same day, nothing more, nothing less. He did the overlay because I requested it, I already told this to Buschur.

Second, why are you attacking gruppe-s with that MBC comment? Did gruppe-s attack you at all in this thread? They never said anything about your AFR or tune.

Why do you and your buddy Buschur have a new policy lately where you rip the crap out of other vendors/companies?

I for one am getting tired of it.


Since you got huffy about the other car having cams, here is one without cams:

 

Yor right about the MBC - I was just mad to read this idiotic comparsion

i edited my remarks

 

It's a low reading Dyno Al, doesn't mean anyone here is saying your tune sucks. Even buschur said it is making his parts look good. Follow suit my friend and stop the same "Vendor Bashing" you flagged this thread to the admins for.

Again, here is a car with no cams:

2003 Evo (CA 91 octane)
Mods:
Walbro 255 pump
TBE w/o CAT
Gruppe-S Ecutek tune




Evo 9 mods: (CA 91 octane)
Dynoflash custom tune
Buschur IC pipings with smaller battery
Buschur TB w/ HFC

 

I was on 100 octane at the time.. but i was leaking boost. i was only @ 22-23 psi.
i had 272, 10.5, stock air box, full exhaust and xede. (vishnu stage 1++)but i made 337 on stock turbo on 100 or 105 on the dd dyno on stock turbo.

 

Ok I am still the king on 91 then.

 

what did you make on 100? i made 296 on 91.

 

I haven't done the 100 map yet. After the new year. I am anxious to see what it does.

 

Low reading dyno - fine - but this car was at 17 - 18 psi of boost when it was dynoed. The tune was set for 20.5 psi peak. If the boost was at a proper level when it went to the dyno it would have had an identicval peak TQ number and peak WHP number. Out of the 100's of dyno sheets that have been posted of my tunes on Buschur Stage 1 and 2 ever single one of them had identical TQ to whp if not more TQ.

When you take a car driven on the street and bring it to the dyno with a MBC very often the MBC must be re-adjusted to match the boost to the new dyno load.

It is quite possible that the dyno shop neglected to re-adjust the boost or it may have been set too low by the customer as many boost gauges read a bit low.

It is regreatful that the particular dyno is not equiped to log the MAP.

I am 100% sure this IX was run on low boost.

if you examine the shape of the TQ curve the TQ is rising almost straight up when it is suddenly arrested in dead stop - BY THE OPENING of the wastegate - by the MBC when it reached 17 - 18 psi.

You would see a more natural rounding off towards peak boost if the boost was hitting a normal 20 psi level

if you look carefully at the dyno sheet you will see it just does not look correct

Also - how many evos make linear power increases to 7,000 like that dyno sheet ?

 

Al, it's fine, that evo 9 is pretty strong for that dyno, almost 270whp is nothing to sneeze at on that mustang dyno for just a TBE and reflash.

Just calm down...

If it makes you feel better since you have been doing so much EVO 9 song and dance lately, a 05 evo with just a TBE and your mail-in flash made 254whp on that dyno.

Is the 9 you tuned looking better now?