exactly.. RRM is all bragging that they're kit is "bullet-proof" and how perfect it runs.. i laughed when i saw that.. they are still feeding bull**** into the young lancer community. theres no such thing as a bulletproof kit or a perfect kit when you put it on a car that was not designed for one. that kit could blow any day... just like how RRM blew MANY previous gen lancers with their turbo kits..

but as said above if you want safetey and perfect driving..dont turbo your car at at all..

 

Ok first off, like i said, reliability has more to do with the owner than the car. Why do you think theres hundreds and thousands of hondas, mitsubishis, acuras, etc out there with aftermarket turbo kits AND custom turbo kits, that have been that way for many years as daily drivers. Second....i dont see you turbo'ing your lancer and then having merit to say that someone's blown motor is due to their turbo kit. only reading posts about other people's mishaps, and commenting on how its because you put a turbo on a non turbo car.

My statement, no matter what anyone here will say, will always stand. Anything can be completely reliable if you do it the RIGHT way. And no that doesnt mean buying a car turbo'ed from the factory. It means knowing whats the right way to modify a car based on knowing what the consequences of everything is. Theres just WAY too many car owners out there that say "this kit gives me 80hp, i'm gonna put it on even tho i dont know the difference between a wastegate and a BPV". And then they wonder why they blew their engine when they repeatedly pushed the car without so much as even a boost gauge installed.

Show me ANYONE on this board, or anywhere, that installed an aftermarket turbo kit, and blew their motor, and can blame it on the turbo kit instead of lack of maintenance, or proper gauges to know what their car is doing, or proper supporting mods. A turbocharged car from the factory is just a NA car that's design was modified properly to recieve the desired boost levels. Thats it. Theres no difference between Mitusbishi doing it before you bought the car, or yourself/a shop doing it after you bought the car.

The bottom line is Yitzac's car was pushed beyond where it should have been pushed with stock internals. In all of his videos and posts he cleared stated he was running 8psi with it spiking at 10psi. People need to realize that just because its averaging 8psi, doesnt mean the 10psi spike doesnt matter. The 02-07 lancers couldnt handle 10psi boost without a bunch of fuel upgrades and a lot of tuning, so why would an 08+ lancer be able to handle it? Hell he was running the stock fuel pump at 7psi. Reading back the posts it just seemed like either himself, or Xtremeboost, really just did things one thing at a time trying to get by with what was there instead of upgrading it in the first place. Why push the stock fuel pump if you can just swap it out for one with more flow and not worry. Why run stock this, or stock that, and see if it can keep up, instead of doing that in the first place. Its just playing with fire, and sooner or later, someones gonna get burned

And this post isnt "Yay RRM" either. I'm sure plenty of people have blown their motors or had problems on RRM's kits too. But like i said above, 4 out of 5 people who turbo their cars barely have a working understanding of whats going on , and just throw their money at someone else and expect it to run properly without having to keep an eye on things.

 

Ahmen.

 

I'm sorry but this is completely wrong. A factory turbocharged motor is not simply an NA engine redesigned for forced induction, it's often an engine designed entirely from the ground up to work with boost. Manufacturers invest millions into designing an engine, how many aftermarket companies or shops can claim the same level of dedication? If you truly think that the engine out of an Evo or STI is just the NA counterpart with a few changes, you're more naive than I could possibly have imagined based on your posts. A factory turbocharged car will always be superior to one that has been tuned or modified in the aftermarket scene.
While I agree completely that many people go running into the turbocharged scene before they even understand fundamental engine dynamics (god knows I've told many people not to do it before they at least know what a BPV is), many of these kits are sold as being all-inclusive, meaning all you have to do is bolt them on and go. This isn't meant to be vendor bashing, but in the early days of the RRM kit for the 02-03 Lancer, they were sold with no true tuning parts. They came with a different FPR and that was it. This lead to many people having cars that frankly didn't run right at all. They may not have blown up (I can't off the top of my head think of an example that did) but they were no where near a properly setup car. Unfortunately a lot of vendors are pushing the kits very hard resulting in people who shouldn't buy kits buying kits. You can see it almost every day on here. People buy a turbo kit or piece together a custom setup yet they want to cut corners everywhere. They ask if they need a tune right away (yes!), they ask if they need gauges (yes!), they ask if they need a new clutch (yes!), it's just nuts.
In this case, the vendor or the tuner has to take some of the blame. It's easy to say it's all the customer's fault but the fact is he paid a shop to do the work so he wouldn't have to. If he knew everything, he would have made a custom kit or started his own shop.

 

two things
1) i didnt intend to make it sound like an NA car and a turbo car are basically the same thing minus a few internal parts. I meant to say that a turbo car designed from the factory is designed from the ground up to withstand a predetermined amount of boost. An NA car is designed from the ground up to pull in a predetermined amount of power and safety, BUT that doesnt mean that it cant withstand more. Same with a factory designed turbo car. Sure it is prebuilt to withstand turbo abuse, BUT as we've seen with many many evos, eclipses, etc, they can also withstand much much more. I'm saying that its relative. An NA designed car, and a factory turbo designed car, can both withstand more than they put out stock. Just not the same #'s. Theres no reason a factory designed NA car cant handle boost, its just a question of how much boost, and how well everything is put together. And look at the 4g63, and 4g63t in the early DSMs. They were close to the same engine, with the exception of stronger internals, oil squirters, injectors, and compression ratios, and a few more things. They were still the same overall design, just built with different purposes in mind. But its been proven that the NA version, could be modified, to match the stock output of the 4g63t reliably. Sure the 4g63t could be modified and handle way more, but i'm not denying that. My main point was that adding 40-80hp can be done completely reliably to a NA car, as it can to an already turbo'd car. Its just relative because of the different starting points.

2) once again, my opinions regarding all of this, are not directed at the manufacturers. Every turbo kit has the POTENTIAL to destroy a car, no matter how much its complete, or incomplete. Its really in the hands of the person installing it, and using it. The person driving the car on a daily basis is just as dangerous as the person installing and tuning the kit. If they both dont know limitations, and adhere to them, eventually something is going to go. The old 02-03 RRM kits were a hair dryer with an FMU, but how many people on this board (with good knowledge of turbocharging a car, and what you have to constantly do to keep them in good working order) kept them on their cars, and running strong for many years? Plenty. But equally there were plenty who, like we both agreed, have zero idea about how turbos work, and their effect on their engines, and wondered why their engine blew when they were driving down the highway. Only to find out their FMU or comparable fuel delivery system was failing, but had no idea, and leaned out and blew their engine. Had they known what an FMU actually is, and what a wideband o2 sensor is, and what proper EGTs and AFRs are, it could have been avoided. Those people with good working knowledge, who put on turbo kits on their car, and know completely well the risk, i guarantee you have guages all over the car, and eye them all everyday, nervously, waiting for something to show out of the ordinary. But those are the people who fix a problem before its a problem

 

I just think that too many people on this board are armchair critics, who say "oh its stupid to turbo a car, its going to blow up" or "just buy an evo", when really they probably couldnt tell you what each piece is in a picture of a turbo kit. Installing anything that adds that much horsepower to a car comes with a risk, and like any risk in any other aspect of life, those who truly understand that risk, are the ones that should be undertaking it. No disrespect to other forumers, but when you have no idea what compressor surge is, after you already have your turbo kit installed, your priorities are completely backwards. If you need to pay someone else to install your turbo kit, and tune it, chances are you shouldnt have it. Bottom line.

 

1. It really depends on what you're doing. An NA was designed by the factory to be NA, they never thought about forced induction when they selected the various parts and materials used in the motor. Sure most if not all NA motors can survive a little bit of boost but that's far different than with a factory built boosted engine. If you buy an Evo, the engine will last at the stock boost level for thousands upon thousands of miles. By contrast, I've yet to here of any Lancers running 10 or more PSI lasting for as long. The engine is simply not designed for it. Sure you can change the internals to address that issue but there's far more to it than that. What about the basic block design, is it open, semi-open or closed? What about oiling? What about cooling? What about the wiring arrangement? These are all issues that the factory will have addressed in their turbocharged motors but that are not generally issues in NA motors (and thus not worth spending money dealing with from their point of view).
People like to talk about reliability but it depends on what you're using the car for. Street reliability is far different from track reliability, as an example. if you're rarely pushing the car, sure, an NA motor will probably be capable of handling the brief stress of a few seconds of boost followed by several minutes of continuous speed (as experienced during daily driving). However, at the track where you're essentially either at 100% throttle or 0% throttle, an NA motor won't last without severe modification and even then, the little issues suddenly become big issues. There's nothing wrong with aftermarket forced induction but to think that it's as reliable as OEM forced induction is nuts.
2. It depends on who you ask. There are several members who had big issues with their kits and when asked now whether they'd do it again, say no. When I was considered turboing my Lancer (I even had the kit sitting in my garage), a member mentioned how dissatisfied he was with the kit which was one reason why I never did it. The kit had several problems and I doubt you can find a single member who did not have an issue of some kind, ranging from exhaust leaks to idle issues to cars that simply didn't run right at all. Most of the people who had good setups did so on their own or modified an existing kit to better fit their needs.
The kits being discussed here are being sold as complete kits, bolt-on and go. You only have to go to the manufacturer's website to see this. With this in mind, they are being pushed as requiring very little mechanical skill to install and operate correctly. That's the problem here, turbo kits are being sold in the same manner as computers, you don't need a degree in computer engineering to buy a system from Best Buy. Unfortunately, as you point out, that leads to problems when people leave their tuner and then encounter a problem.

 

Cant say i disagree with anything here. I guess i just should have specified a little more in my posts. I'm completely talking about a daily driven street car that will be driven as a quick fun daily driver. No NA car is built to withstand 10psi, and when i talk about responsibly turbocharging an NA car, i'm talking about low boost, for casual driving. The ultimate goal of anyone turbocharging their NA car without serious internal modifications, is to get from point a to point b, and enjoy it a little more. Not how much HP you can pull out, or to keep up with mustangs or evos or STIs. If you want that, go out and buy something different, or be prepared to shell out serious money and time to completely rebuild your engine. Thats the only reason i find to turbocharge an NA car, and that car should be treated as such. Unfortunately too many 16 year olds with their parent's money out there watched the fast and the furious too much, and think they can slap on a turbo and start drifting a FWD car around the walmart parking lot. I have zero sympathy for anyone who tries to tell me that an NA car vs a turbo car will be reliable as track cars without serious modifications. That i COMPLETELY agree with. Thats why i kinda talked in my post regarding those people who beat their cars after they get a turbo with complete disregard for warm up/warm down, gauge watching, etc, purely because they believe they dont have to.

Totally agree with you that its the irresponsibilty of major manufacturers in telling people these kits are "plug and play" and "ready to go with no modifications". EVERY turbo kit is a custom modification to your car, and EVERY turbo kit requires a lot of know how, engineering, and modification on your part. I guess its just always the same old song and dance. Its a product for sale, and the goal is to push that product, buyer beware.

My point i was trying to convey, is any modification to your car, is NOT plug and play, and should be treated as such. Regardless of what your told, something that isnt put out from the factory that way, will need extra care and attention, and responsibility. But thats not to say it cant be reliable. Its purely just a question of how attentive you're willing to be to details.

 

 

^ amen

 

LOL amazing, touche to you good sir

 

too much reading, i just scrolled down to the pic. lovin' it! rofl

edit.. still nothing? I guess it did blow. what a shame

 

As I understand it he pushed the car over the amount of lbs he was tuned for,otherwise the kit has being working just fine.

 

You are right on with that but sometimes facts are just overlooked to try and make a point.

 

lol where did xtremeboost go?