i will be the test dummy for the software and PB....i have WB02 and EGT....and Rock knows me! and i know my car pretty well and i got 2 friends that street tuned there own cars on a LINK standalone.

 

You're damn straight I'm a nice guy. But Splitsecond has been selling these boxes for much cheaper with software to other car enthusiasts. RRM has inflated the price for their box, albeit with a great tune and been selling it with no software. Something about that still stinks rotten eggs to me. I've heard their reasons but we are all adults here. In moding and tuning your car anything can happen. You take the risk and you suffer the consequences if you’re wrong.

The fact remains that RRM decided that collectively we shouldn't have the software.

As mentioned in previous threads and posts within this one, there are much more tunable systems out there and they have larger support groups, with tons more info on tuning then the Splitsecond box. There are reputable shops everywhere in the country with tuning knowledge for these other boxes. They are not the only game in town. Inflating the cost to almost double what the MSRP is without software and then saying that because they are now going to give us what the manufacture would have given us for free and then charging even more is just not cool in my eyes.

It's all up to RRM but I would think they should just sell the box for the new price and give out the software. Furthermore the software should be given to those who have already purchased the systems. Again, this software is something that Splitsecond bundles with their systems normally. It was RRM who decided not to give it out.

As for the support system that we plan on making here on Evom for tuning: Once someone gets a tune on their Splitsecond box better or near RRM's tune, that tune can be made available to everyone. (or at least tips and suggestions to achieve that end) If RRM is worried about protecting their R/D dollars they have more than recouped what they invested in their tuning of the first systems sold. It was the hard earned dollar of Evom's member patronage to RRM, not to mention any walk-ins they have had otherwise who have bought their tune. There is no way by my estimation that it cost more than a few hundred to one thousand dollars to come up with their tune.

As someone mentioned it cost him nearly 600 dollars to come up with a tune near RRM’s tune the Splitsecond box w/ software. With the price of the Splitsecond box double that of the manufacturer at 400 some odd dollars you tell me how many they would have needed to sell to once again be profitable? If you can't do the math that's three systems sold.

If the argument is that they are charging for customer service then it still is not justified by the price. These things are easier to install then a SRI. And while I had trouble installing it for N1te when I did his, to call RRM took less than 5 minutes.

I don't see that it's asking for so much. All I am asking for is that RRM make available what Splitsecond was bundling with their systems to begin with. If RRM wants to go the extra mile and sell it with their base map with the software that is great on their part.

In addition I find the argument that RRM is putting out there slightly asinine and disrespectful to all of you that purchased their box. If we were a bunch of children then fine, but we are consumers and customers so treat us with some respect. We might not all have the years and experience of RRM's team but we all are enthusiasts with different goals. I have no problem with the fact that they are selling us these boxes near double the MSRP with no software but with a great tune and support, in fact I applaud RRM for their support and their great customer service, but what I take offense to is the idea that because they are going to possibly bundle the system with the software they are going to sell the system for more. To not give us the software, even if it is to protect us from ourselves, is wrong. To not give us the software, and to tell us that if we want it we have to pay more, is wrong. To use faulty arguments as to why we are paying more and getting less is wrong.

Just my .02

Fox

 

the whole point of the box RRM sells was to give lancers plug and play tuning with out having to go to a dyno, buy a wideband ect. its for people who want tuning without any hassels, and no risk of blowing up there car. if RRM intended you to tune it your self from the start they probably wouldn't have bothered with a base tune, and would have given just the box and software from the get go. then it would be just like emanage, SAFC, AEM EMS, ect.....no tune, just the hardware/software to get you going and some basic instructions, then your on your own. the piggyback isn't aimmed at the DIY tuner, its intended for all the other people that don't want to get their hands dirty. RRM is adding a feature to the box that they didn't intend to release in the beginning. don't cry about extra pricing for software. If you want to be a DYI tuner for cheaper go out and get Emanage or something. they aren't obligated to release the software, if they were they would have already done it by now. they're not trying to shady, they just wanted this box to be plug and play and leave it at that.

 

First off Shingen, some of what you say I agree with completely. However you make some assumptions that are unfounded and do not have base in fact. To review, there was no kind of off the shelf SS box for the Lancer till we had them make it for us. Their off the shelf boxes do not work with KARMANN VORTEX type MAFs. None of them. As for the tune, we don't care. They are part of the boxes we sell and are included with boxes. We have to buy small quantity which makes the custom box price cost more than their off the shelf stuff. Regardless we are going to determine a way to support it with software. I believe I stated in my first post that if there is a way we can include software we will, and it will only help us. So......... some of what you say is not true. No offense taken but we have a lot of factors to consider that people forgot or would rather not acknowledge. By the way, nice essay, very well organized and concise. Give you an A+ for that.

ROAD/RACE

 

trust me the split second boxes that are off the shelf don't work... at least for the ralliart. I tried to do this and the car was hitting a wall at about 4 psi. RRM's box has all kinds of extra wires than the box i had baught.

I'm turbo so it may be different but i tried to go custom and just ended up selling the box and getting their kit. Car has been great ever since.

I've also talked with Split Second personally and they told me that the boxes were custom made to work with the lancer ECU. He wouldn't give me details but said the boxes on the shelf weren't able to work.

 

Quick thoughts on the Fox rant:

1. RRM is the only one selling the SS box. They can set the price. If you don't like the price, you don't buy it. That's business. You might not like it, but that doesn't matter. It's all about what puts food on Rob's table.

2. Yes, it's insulting to say that the consumers can't handle the software. But you know what? How many "RRM killed my car!" threads have we had because the owner tried to install his own turbo kit and screwed it up? Gee, I accidentally ran 48 lbs. of boost through my car, but it's all RRM's fault! Face facts - the average consumer is basically retarded. Some people like you and me know what we're doing. But a LOT of people DON'T.

3. As many people have pointed out, this isn't an "off the shelf' item like an SAFC. If that's the product you're looking for, then perhaps you should buy one of those. This is a custom product.

 

Adding to what Black said. For the money, you get custom box, infinitely fine tuned compared to AFC. PLus after people said over and over...do the math, they don't. Box + dyno ($200 to $600 quoted by members) and not having to have a laptop (if you do not) and not having to buy Wideband ($200-$400)..... Well $429 is for sure less. So I hope that does the MATH for the MATH MAJORS on the forum. Plus what is your time worth? BOT, We need to decide how to best manage including software cause I pretty much want to include it in the future.

ROAD/RACE

 

Also I do not think I ever said that but inferred that some conssumers cannot without a lot of hand holding. Remember, "The Toast burners?"

OK, ok.

ROAD/RACE

 

I've been interested in getting a tune, and for a while I hoped I could get the RRM piggyback. Unfortunately my engine is simply too modified to run with the current box. Being able to get it professionally tuned would be a definite plus, especially considering the problems some members have had with other units. I can see the problems RRM might have this, cause frankly if I was a vendor I would be very hestitant as well considering the nature of most car owners (how many threads have we seen recently that began with "I was racing a friend/trying to rally my stock lancer when) but I'm sure a little disclaimer would handle it. People have tried to blame RRM for turbo related problems, but your name is still the first to come up whenever forced induction is mentioned.

 

Super modded guys like you are another reason to release the software.


ROAD/RACE

 

No, I wasn't saying that. But you didn't have to - because I already knew.

I work at a library. I know that 95% of the time I hear "I looked on the shelf but didn't find it," well, I know that if I go over to the shelf, it will be there.

The average consumer is, well, slightly retarded. Sad but true.

--------

BOT - speaking as a former Lancer owner, I will say that the release of the software WOULD have made me buy the PB. I bought the SAFC simply because I could tune it to my mods. I know the PB is a good "we do it for you" method, but I had planned to mod my Lancer 1000%, so custom tuneability was what I wanted.

 

Software or not, we will always include the base map. So both guys benefit!

ROAD/RACE

 

Phew - what a thread to read. It's nice to read a thread where the arguments were structured and thought out and that this thread didn't become a name calling, bashing, flaming thread

Just to add a vote, I'm all for including the software and it sounds like RRM is planning on doing it.

On a side note, what really got this whole discussion rolling was the V.2 piggys that had some OUTPUT SETTING issues. There were NO problems with the tune or maps. Now obviously with the software you can adjust the tunes, but you can also tweak the output settings and avoid having to return the box to RRM for them to do it. RRM could post up a "latest and greatest" settings thread or something or others as well. Just my thoughts.

Again, great thread and it's nice to see that we've made some good progress. Great job to all you responsible grown-ups out there and to RRM who actually cares about tuning the Lancer. Now we just need them to start selling projector headlights for the 02-03 Lancers *hint hint*

 

lol

 

You're right. I won't buy it. Not when there are more cost effective alternatives that can be had with more tunability with unlimited support from support groups and shops. That or I'll find a used Splitsecond box or do the leg work and get one from another Splitsecond seller.

I find it hard to beleive that Splitsecond made a Lancer specific box when other companies make similar devices that work on most modern imports. I also find it hard to beleive anything from a company who stated that the box adjusted the timing when it doesn't. That's either a blatent misrepresentation of a product or a company not knowing a product. At this point it is a trust, scalabilty and money issue for me. This box does not have the upgradeabilty or the price that warrent a purchase.

About what Rock said about it being time being a factor: I, and perhaps others on this board, think they do their research on what they buy. I do the install and want the best for what I pay. I don't skimp when it comes to products, but when something is overpriced I wait it out and get it for less. I might be the minority here on the boards, but I'd like to think that I'm at least thinking about what I put on or in my car.

Also I for one have been blessed with meeting friends in my area that have taught me a lot and have helped me with my installs and my education about imports. I've had the oppurtunity to speak to several members here on the boards and in person and I've come to one simple but fundimental truth: if you bend over just right you'll get it up the *** and lose your milk money in the process.

RRM is a business. RRM wants your money. RRM will get your money if you don't shop around. Here's some more simple math Rock and everyone else: Fox = not a customer of RRM products any longer

Greenpsycho has another convert... well not really but I thought it would be funny if I put that.

Fox