Alright, here is a log after adjusting MAF values, so i got it to start giving me fuel in open loop/ boost but its way to rich haha wideband reads pegged 10 AFR, also my timing is pretty low and im still getting knock, but i noticed most of the knock, the knock voltage is usually less that 1.00 Usually its like .40 or .80 occasionally i see some thats 1.xx and really rarely do i see some thats 2.xx Whats knock and whats not??

 

I'm thinking anything that is showing in knocksum, is KNOCK. I don't know about voltage, except that it can be misleading if you misinterpret what it's telling you.

Umm, about that super rich stuff, I had that as well. I pulled back my scaling some, but you know what I noticed. If I am pushing about 60% throttle, I'm RICH!!!!, if I press in some more, I run good AFR's....if I press to about 100% (or whatever max is) I start moving lean.

What Steven said about Accel enrichment...that I somewhat dismissed, may have been right on. I thought that it was like just the initial press, but I'm thinking accel enrich is more when you press the pedal, it's there to compensate for the lag time in changes as far as the injectors or ecu responding or whatever.

Still, point being, the lancers get progressively smaller, but the evo's get larger quick until they stay large in what you would probably call "the boost range". I think that accel enrich is really important for a boosted car, because that pressure is like just there waiting to poor into the cylinder waiting to lean out the mix. More so than an N/A car, because it's pressurized and being FORCED into the engine faster. Anyhow, I'm copying the accel enrich like steven said, and puting it in my ROM to give it a go tomorrow morning. I'm now in no shape to drive this evening, so It will just have to wait. If you're up for it, be my guest to give it a go, I'd love to hear good results....

 

What are the values for accel enrich?? ill give em a shot, and im getting crazy counts of knock, if i try to accel quick i get knock up to 12 at times... is this because its TOO rich? I have had no knock before when AFR were at 13-14 at 80+% TPS and a good amount of timing advanced as well. Also remember that the evo knock settings are different than the lancer settings as well, im using the tephra "hybrid" as you like to call it lol but it uses the evo knock sensor settings as well, it just makes me nervous to accelerate now, it sucks i have to drive so slow

BTW this is what my accel enrich looks like...what do i need to change?, i have alot of accel enrich settings as you can see here:

 

I definately would not dismiss any knock until you can confirm its phantom knock regardless of the voltage. This is something I have been working on since switching to the evo ROM but I test everything before deciding whether or not its real or fake. Glad to hear your not lean anymore and yes droppingg below 10 afrs can actually give you more knock. if your rich now you might try the stock lancer enrichment if your not already. This is what I am using and is working great for me

 

So you are using the stock lancer accel enrichment, and you've got no issue with pushing the pedal down, getting in boost partially being rich? Or, when you're at partial boost and you push it to the metal, you don't go lean? That's what I'm seeing now, but I thought it was all about accel enrchment, not adding enough fuel as it picked up more air that was pressurized. Alright...so I thought I had it a step closer, but if you are saying that's not the right direction....dang it, lol.

Oh, and like 03lances says...knock is most likely real, and if everything else gets eliminated, then maybe you can call it phantom. As far as knock in your ROM though, those settings are the lancer base ones as far as I know. 18 multiplier and 3 single, 5 triple gain. Knock you see is most likely real. Rich knock is a real thing, so maybe the MAF scaling was too much?

Oh, the Async Accel vs RPM table, that one is the "accel enrich" table I'm talking about. It appears to be of the "stock lancer" variety on yours, as it's thick up top, then drops down quickly by 3000 rpm. The Evo one starts low and climbs quickly by like 3000 rpm....so I dunno, right now we have steven using the evo table, and 03lances using the base lancer "i think"...I've got stock lancer, and it's too lean as a "stab"....Bleh.

I guess I'll see tomorrow morning what the dill is, but let us know 03lances what yours currently looks like, if you don't mind.


The only thing I found as far as forum posts go, is that accel enrichment displays the value for the RPM range as long as RPM's are increasing. I'm thinking I might be excited tomorrow morning, if it helps. Perhaps maybe a mix of the stock lancer and the evo table?

 

I can say for sure I am using the stock accel enrich for the base lancer as I changed it Back rather recently from my own mixed values I had in there. Now that doesn't mean using others is a bad idea there are lots of variables so switching to the evos might work for you.
Mitsukid since your rich now maybe try and cut those values in half now so if you raised them 10 drop them all down 5 and see what happens. If you had. That much of a change just switching the mag values then we should be able to get them closer using the maf table then fine tune certain areas with other tables such as that accel enrichment

 

Sorry for the crappy grammer I am on my phone typing from work lol. Oh ya hornstar no problems anymore after I switched to forced open loop and reset my accel enrichment table it has made tuning fuel so much easier at least for me.

 

Damn thats scary then because im getting serious knock when i press the pedal even lightly, ill work on the MAF scaling some more and see what i get with chopping the numbers in half, hopefully less knock. Is it normal for a knock sensor to decreese? what i mean is instead of displaying "7" as a knock sum, then disappear once the knock was gone, this is what happened on my normal lancer rom, but with the tephra rom usually ill get a "7" then "6", "5" "4" "3" "2" "1" even if i let off the throttle!

 

So cutting the numbers down a little im still getting 10 if i floor it, if im semi-easy on the gas i can get it to stay around 11.5 in boost, but sometimes when im not in boost if im on the highway in overdrive if i just ever so lightly press the pedal and it goes into open loop while still in vac i got knock so bad, one time i got as high as 22 counts.... So i think i need to raise my load value for open loop so it wont trip open loop at such a low load level, overall i think im getting closer but the knock is killing me, im going to just wait a few days until i get the serial cable from hornstar to log my wideband with evoscan to do some real fine tuning, i cant drive and do pulls seeing knock as high as its getting

EDIT: can someone with a stock lancer ROM verify these knock settings are for a lancer knock sensor or an evo knock sensor?

Knock sum decay timer: 160
Knock multiplyer: 18
Knock adder, single gain: 3
Knock adder, tripple gain: 5

Knock load ignored below:
500-------40.0
1000-----40.0
1500-----40.0
2000-----40.0
2500-----40.0
3000-----50.0
3500-----50.0
4000-----50.0
4500-----50.0
5000-----50.0

Also if these are lancer knock settings, does it matter if there being used in the tephra ROM? Im just really freaked out at how high of knock im getting, granted ill be more careful even if the knock was not real, but i cant even do a pull without knock exceeding 8 counts before i even get to boost! grrr

 

The lady at the post said "it should be there Wednesday"

Oh, and about the knocks. Maybe you weren't seeing them before when you were lean, right? But you do see them now that you are rich...keep working back on those MAF scalings until you aren't so rich, even if you have to just put like 300 and 400 back to near stock values. I've heard stories of tuners putting a car on the dyno, working their magic....and having a bad wideband sensor, but keeping to try to tune the AFR's. Eventually, they determine the WB is bad, but there are other signs that say "be careful" like, knock all the sudden when you're rich. If you didn't have knock on lean, but do in rich, and if you straighten it out and get like 11.5AFR and still see knock....then there might be another issue somewhere, like an exhaust leak near the wideband or something causing it to read leaner than it is or something.....just spitting out theories here.

I don't get much time to warm up on the way to work, as it's only a 20 minute drive or so, but by about minute 15 i felt significantly warm and put it at 2psi or so. Little rich, which is expected with my MAF scaling, but even with the accel enrichment basically evo stock, except I raised it so it is "high" earlier, like 2500 rpm instead of 3000 or whatever....but not a huge change. I saw 10.8AFR with low TPS at 2psi, and then if i gave it a bit more gas, it just leaned to 11.9, little more gas, 12.3....so I need to put in some long pulls, like 2k-5k rpm and see if this means anything. The real point I guess is that it did seem to make some change, but I might need more accel enrichment and less maf scaling.

Oh, and I thought about accel enrich....in the stock lancer, upwards of like 2.5k rpm, it's .88% which in the evo rom, it's like 1.43%. So if what my common sense tells me, then it's adding like .43% more fuel up front? That would make sense, for an N/A car you'd want it lean right at first, but a turbo car you'd want it to get rich pretty quick, ya? Anyhow, I hope that's all right, because then I'd be 1 step closer to a roadworthy tune.

*KNOCK* just FYI, I don't know who would be able to compare them, because they don't seem to be defined in my xml files for standard lancer roms. I do remember RoadSpike saying that the ones you listed are the ones that are in the stock lancer, which he found during a disassemble session, but didn't officially define I think.

Also, attached pic....I think MAF smoothing/compensation may have some effect as well, since if you notice the drastic reduction at about 600 hz....where I jump into boost, or right before. I'm going to copy the "scaling" over to mine this afternoon, like use the same percentage changes and see how that works out.

 

Ok, so my next question.. haveing a semi evo tephra ROM in my lancer ECU, will stock lancer knock settings throw off the knock sensor? I just want the knock sensor out of all things to be extremly accurate! Wednessday like tomorrow?? sweet! i cant wait to start logging the AFR so i can see when and where it starts getting super rich and all and deff be able to tell if it is the richness thats causing the knock im seeing. I am just really **** about knock because my car has about 140k on it poor lancer hahah. So if it gets here tomorrow ill just drive slow uintil tomorro and ill start logging my wideband and post up loggs for you guys to view them. Hopefully with your help i can lower my knock count but still be where i want to be in terms of fuel in boost

 

I totally agree with you...knock sensor is the most important thing when changing things the way we are....if it were a dyno, much safer...diff story.

So, as far as the knock right now though, if it's too rich, split the diff on your MAF scaling again, and see if you can put it closer. I've got a test in the mix to see if I can make a difference with the problems I am having....but it isn't even flashed to the car yet. I'm going to attach a pic so you can see what I mean, but it ought to work somewhat I think.....lol

I have no idea what will happen....but lets hope it's good.

 

Thanks for the pic man, if my scaling does not work i will copy these into my rom and let you know how my car reacts! hopefully these settings will help us both

EDIT:: your still using the lancer ROM? my MAF values are MAF HZ on the left and G/S on the right side, Yours are LOAD on the left and UNITS on the right, not sure how to copy your settings into mine?

 

OK, 2 points. 1, lol, if you are "running" the evo maps, but have your values in them, that's not exactly what I meant. I think what steven was implying was that he could just pop a stock ROM on and run it with 8.8 to 1 comp, which we've since decided is a bad idea.....but, yes, I see your point, you are technically using the evo maps.

Point 2...about your knock. If you have 21 timing at 90 load in the 4000 range...compare that to my rom, and it's way diff since I'm on stock lancer, and 90 load to you is like 50 load to me....BUT. The point I want to make is, you have that timing, a stock evo at that point has 27 degrees, and 03lances has 19 degrees. So, what I am wondering is where you got your timing values? I think that may be part of your knock problems. The map of yours I have shows 90 load, 4000 rpm being like 13 degrees.....I dunno, just trying to see if you've significantly adjusted timing since then.....actually, since I'm looking at this, I think I need to move this to the other thread, since I don't wanna take up Zulu's thread on this.


Also, in response to the copying of tables, they are very similar on the left column, a few digits off, but you could put them in I think, and just be 1610 at the top instead of 1600 like me. As far as accel enrichment, that's a diff story. Use the scaling I put in a pic I guess, and see if you can get it comparable...I think yours is in uint8 right now.


EDIT* Wait, wtf is that table on the right? I can't read the title, Async Accel vs what?

 

Yeah im not running that much timing haha my motor would prob pop at timign that high!! I rescaled the load values as wella s the timing here is what the high and low octane maps look like:






Keep in mind that if i were at 4000 RPM i would be around 120-130 load and in boost, wich timing is around 9-10. As you can see the timing is not as high as the evo's timing, since im auto trans i kept high timing in the low loads because i cant switch gears and i hate bogging in low load. But the timing from 70+ is reduced and even more so 100+ to accept boost. IDK though im still new to tuning as well, do these numbers look too high? I know in boost im usually hitting 9 timing advanced max.

Also the one on the right is "asynch_accel_vs_RPM" is this the correct accel enrich?