Ok, I really wanted to just let this go, seeing as how you felt the need to ask this question yet again. If you're set on putting an LED inline with the knock sensor, then please just do it. Figure out which one it is, cut the wires, put the LED inline and tell us how often the thing blinks.

If you're worried about knock, just use your ears. If it sounds like an old station wagon chuggin its way up a hill, then be concerned and back off the timing.

 

lol im not worried about knock... im just throwing out ideas... trying to help people save some money is all.

 

How many times would you hear it knocking? Anyone remeber that guy w/ piston slap? Would it sound something like that?

 

Knock is pretty easy to pick up. A pop, a stutter, a stumble, anything sound like that indicates predetonation.

Piston slap sounds way worse (I've heard it). It's unlikely you could miss or mistake either one.

 

So how did the weekend emanage tuning go?

What does piston slap sound like?

 

google it. It seriously sounds like an old diesel engine at idle. Until the pistons warm up and start to fill that void, that is. It's pretty gross stuff- oil leaks past the rings and fouls the combustion chamber, the rings score the cylinder walls, if the slap is bad enough the rings can be damaged and not make a seal...

As for the eManage, I'm starting to think that there are a couple issues that most folks aren't able to diagnose because they don't have enough equipment. First problem is, it looks like the ECU learns around the eManage. the eM map appears to work for a day or so after an ECU reset, but slowly the AFR has crept to 11.9:1 (that's the same AFR that me and my buddy were getting at our dyno day, and I had the eM hooked up with a really aggressive fuel cut. I actualyl should have been lean the whole time) This may be able to be fixed with the eM O2 sensor adapter that works off of the VTEC controller. Basically, you intercept the O2 sensor signal (which the ECU uses to make its changes, and to learn) with the eM at a chosen RPM point (that's why it uses the VTEC control map), change the value how you want it, and then send the signal back to the ECU. The ECU just assumes everything's OK. It sort of makes the eM more of a standalone because the ECU isn't really involved in the fuel management once the RPM point for signal interception has been crossed. The other problem is a hideous lean spike at throttle lift. I think I'm the only one to notice this because I'm the only one to be using a WBO2 with the eM and support tool. Basically, take your foot off the gas and the AFR goes to 21:1 (at least, that's as high as my WB will read). So I bought the ignition signal adapter to keep the fuel flowing.
It's another $52 on top of the $350 for the eM, another $40 for the support tool and thankfully the laptop was given to me by my wife. But, it's worth it to not burn holes in my engine components, and to actually be able to make a map and have the map hold for more than a day.

 

There has to be a way around it, because RRM was able to accomplish it with their piggyback unit. Good luck and don't blow anything. Soon I may have the same setup as you do. I just ordered an Auterra scan tool today (won't ship till the 21st because they are closed). I'll probably order the Zeitronix unit late this week or next week. Emanage will wait until next month. Only difference is you are N/A while I'm F/I, but I'm guessing it really doesn't matter when trying to tune A/F ratio.

 

here's another noob question... What are the main differences between wideband and narrowband sensor... Can't you see numbers with a narrowband? The sensor is sending a voltage, so if you have something that translate than Voltage into a usefull number that should work right?

 

The "problem" with narrowband tuning is that the curve for the narrowband is so steep and it's hard to pinpoint the voltage you're looking for. The best thing to do is go to the zeitronix.com site and check out their narrowband graph. That should clear up a lot. If not, go to the sdsefi.com/tech page and read their section on narrow vs. wide band tuning.

But in a small nutshell- the narrowband only reads over a 0-1v range and had to account for all AFRs from 9.5:1 to 20:1 but it only "reads" from about 12:1 to 15:1. Below 12 the ECU just says "rich, we're ok" above 15 the ECU just says "too lean, dump fuel, go closed loop. If this happens again under similar circumstances, turn on CEL". Trying to actually tune with narrowband to get anything like 12.7:1 is pretty friggin hard.
With the wideband, the curve is much less steep and because of the way WBO2 signal boxes are set up they can actually read between 9.0 to 21.0 AFR.

But again with an ECU that resists overmapping (i.e. piggyback inputs) it's sort of a mute point.
Jay- I'm not sure how the split second box is wired differently. I'd be interested to see if they are, in fact, wired differently, and if they're even working after a few months. Not saying they're not working, but I don't know enough about them, what signals they intercept and what they tell the ECU to say they are. It could very well be that there's an O2 intercept that's built in. too bad split second has such an apparent lock on their boxes (the tuning software is like $700) and they're suppose to be next to impossible to buy from split second unless you're a certified shop or something.... could be wrong about that, too

 

From what I read during online searches on the Split Second boxes is they do not sell to the normal person. They only deal with shops. I'll take a look at my wiring harness today after work, because I still have female connectors wired in from the RRM N/A piggy I had back in the day. I'll see if you cut the O2. I know you cut the MAF signal, but you do that for Emanage as well.

EDIT: Nope, RRM piggy connects to power, ground, RPM, and MAF, along with a vacuum line (which I assume reads manifold pressure).

 

Your AFR should go sky high when you come off the gas. That's the ECU's decel fuel cut function saving fuel. It basically just turns on its own steam without combustion (I think fuel is cut somewhere between 96% and 100% under decel) until the throttle is introduced or your reach the parameters to begin idling. I don't know if that function can be touched at all no matter how much you tweak an E-manage. It's one of the things you have to program with a standalone though...one of millions.

EDIT: I don't know what the parameters are for decel fuel cuts on the stock ECU...the AEM EMS' default settings are NOT comparable to that of a stock ECU, and the entrance parameters for that map are user config. So that leaves me clueless as to whether it's DEFINITELY decel fuel cut or not, but most likely it is.

 

well, it's good to know it's not a "problem" The eM work continues

 

Should I just change this to "Hardcore Tuners' A/F Lounge" ???

 

No, because hardcoretuner would show up wondering what's going on, and why we named a thrad after him

 

As long as you're at full lean I don't see it as being a problem. If you were getting something like 15.0:1 on the WB THEN I'd be concerned because that means there IS fuel present. I'm digging you up a link from the AEM Power forums. The decel function is basically the reason you save fuel when you coast in gear as opposed to in neutral too.

You may have to sign up to the AEM Power forums to view, but that place is a wealth of information both regarding standalones and stock ECU's.

EDIT: Can't find a thread on Decel fuel. It's called DFCO (Deceleration Fuel Cut Off) for short though in case you come across that.

BTW, I found the AFR map (the one I was talking about on page 1) It's a .pdf here in this thread:

http://forum.aempower.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=2762