rhyzin

iTrader: (1)

hey all... just wondering if there's a faq or tutorial out there on how to tune an afc. looking for both rough tuning and then tuning on a dyno. i want to take off the restrictor plate on the mas and rough tuning it until i get time for a dyno. with a dyno being $100/hr (or so i've heard) i want to know the ins and outs of tuning the afc.

all i have right now is the k&n fipk for the 3000gt and the rrm muffler. interestingly, since i backed out the mixture screw on the mas, when it came time to change my sparkplugs, they weren't all black like everyone elses. i figure just doing the mas hack isn't going to yield me anything... right now... but i plan on doing other things down the line.

it was either the afc or the fpr. figured it's better to tune the fuel map then just dump a fixed amount of fuel across the rpm band. thanks...

bahamut

http://www.hardracing.com/CARPARTS/APEXi/DAFC.htm

here's some basics.

as for dyno, get multiple people to dyno with you to share the brunt of the cost.

Backing out the screw, just makes your car run a bit leaner.

rhyzin

iTrader: (1)

thanks bahamat. i've read many posts on this board as well as the mirage forums about tuning with an 02 meter(likely i'd get digital) and i have a whole lot of questions that i couldn't find answers to.

why is it that on the hi settings people are tuning at .9v and higher? isn't this too rich?

is the only way to tell if my low settings are correct is if the voltage jumps between .2-.6 across the band?

shouldn't the voltage reading along the whole power band be in the richer stoic range(.7-.8v; hi settings)?

i really just want to know what voltage each rpm setting should be for both high and low settings. all 16 settings.

also, at 80% throttle for high settings, how do you get values for settings under 5k rpm? as i can imagine, you don't really see anything below 5k at 80% long enough to determine a setting.

IS THERE AN ALMIGHTY AFC TUNING FAQ OUT THERE?!?! i'm pulling hairs trying to figure out how people tune these things. i can't find anything on the net that tells me about the best voltage ranges per rpm and why they're best. well okay, thanks to those who decide out of the kindness of their heart to educate me on tuning an afc.

zlancer

iTrader: (1)

Ok well first off...using the voltage numbers off the s-afc is not a good idea. this device doesn't measure the O2 readings that well. i would seriously not take the restrictor plate out of the mas. you will never have a steady fuel curve then. there is no Tuning FAQ because they want you to get it tuned by a pro for a reason. you can really mess up your car. also, having the spark plugs a little black is better then then making them "cleaner" by running a leaner mixture. lean is really bad. rich o-k but not the best..

ok the voltage issue... at idle you want your voltage to jump between .2-.7...thats normal. at low throttle it shouldn't jump that much it should be kinda steady but between .6-.9 is ok.

under full throttle people usually make their cars run a little over .9 because it reduces the risk of detonation. its better to loose like 2hp and run a little richer then to gain more hp by running lean and melting you motor.

the best way to check your voltage is to get it dyno tuned. their O2 sensor is 1000 times more accurate then the O2 sensor on you car. there is a reason why you pay so much for dyno tuning. i kno from experience. i alone spent over $600 to tune my car. and i got more to do.

one more thing...just by adding and intake or headers you fuel adjustment should be very small...not too much above and below the +-. ok i'll talk more when i get home from school...peaCE

bahamut

Zlancer,
He means backing out the screw on the MAF. It's an old DSM'er trick.



I'm not going to say the blue wire O2 read will be 100% accrurate, but it's a cheaper alternative than buying more gauges to cause more electrical gremlins. For NA, I think the O2 read is good, but for forced induction it's better to have an EGT.

Anytime your O2 reading moves from high to low voltage, it's good. If it's stagnant or moving too slowly, you're in trouble. What I mean from idle .085 to .968 (constantly) . . . just an example. When you hit +.98 at idle, you'll stumble from misfiring due to too much fuel.

As for the high and low setting it's varies from mod to mod, cars, and temperature/humidity.


On my car,
For low throttle setting, I started at 33%. Decent sprint onto the road but eats up a lot of gas on normal driving. Mine is now 38%.

For high throttle setting, I started at 75%. Again, same result as above but faster passing power. Mine is now 78% to conserve fuel. Whenever I hit the track, you bet it'll be dropped to 75%.

As for tuning, you'll gain experience with more you mess with it. Ask any local DSM'ers, if it's not beneath them to help you, like they have done for me.

bahamut

Basic tuning FAQ

But how do you gain experience w/o blowing stuff up? Easy listen to your engine w/o the AFC and feel its strength and weakness. Concentrate on its strength and work to lessen its weakness in performance. Once the AFC is installed, let's get cracking. Warning: this is for NA . . . TC is a lot complicated with more dangers.

platform:
1) Manual is much better to tune than slushbox since they have a tendency to be heavily rich.

2) You must have a rpm gauge, taking most of the guess work out. If you have an ES, go swap a OZ one.

3) learn to listen to your motor. you cannot always look at the rpm gauge.

4) find the O2 value best suited for your car.


Tuning.
1) start on low throttle setting. It's easier and safer.

2) turning onto a road or romping it a bit after a stop sign or half-**** passing attempt will net you about 50-60% throttle. Remember, anything below your low throttle setting, your ECU adjusts automatically; with any thing above, the AFC does its magic.

3) listen to the motor and its pull. Does it bog down? If it bog at certain rpm, it's probably running too rich.

4) Then adjust according to each RPM band. This process will take the longest and boring since you have to stretch out each gear. Tune it to get the best power with MPG in mind.


Values at WOT tuning:
Lean: .000 to .299 (when you brake, your value will drop. don't worry about it and at idle)

Stoic: .300 to .899

Rich: + .900 (worry only when you hit .965 and above, especially going over 1.000 . . . dumping a lot of fuel but going nowhere fast)

My car with bigger injectors and using MAF from a 4g64/6g72, I ran best from .922 to .912. I do at times hit .815 . . . feels the same, but I won't tolerate it hitting .795.


This is the basic . . . not doing WOT until I find a safer way to explain others. This is the basic low throttle tuning. I'll add more whwn necessary.

HobieKopek

iTrader: (8)

Thanks for the info, bahamut. Informative as always. With proper air/fuel management a bigger MAF swap should be perfectly doable if I'm not mistaken, right? I couldn't resist the price of the S AFC group buy even though I don't have anything necessitating it at the moment. Since I'm probably going forced induction later on I figured it was worth saving a hundred bucks and just getting it now. This should open some more possibilities up for me though if I'm understanding correctly...should be interesting.

rhyzin

iTrader: (1)

thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you
thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you
thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you

exactly the kind of things i really wanted to know! i know i
won't be able to get optimum tuning without a dyno, but getting
it so i won't have to worry about engine damage (albeit a loss
of hp) no matter how i abuse my car after rough tuning is more
on my mind. THANKS for taking the time to explain this stuff cuz
when i do hand my car over for someone to tune on a dyno i'd
really like to know what they're doin to my baby instead of just
thinking they "magically" just made my car run better.

i wasn't really planning on using the "blue wire" mod for tuning.
i was probably gonna get the digital o2 meter. and yeah, i'm
taking advantage of the group buy also, tho i've been thinking
about getting the safc for a long time. i've got old posts on this
board regarding restrictor plate removal. hehehe.

thanks guys. your knowledge is pure platinum.

pjal84

Are you telling me that one gauge with 1-8 on it with 6 through 8 being in red isn't my tacho? Christ baha, you're one knowledgable ****. I understand the values at higher RPM's and that richness at WOT is bad, but does the opposite hold at lower RPM's to get more power off the line or will that just dump to much fuel at idle? Is an FPR a big plus when doing the MAS swap for this sort of thing? I'll have to dig up the old posts about that.

hardcoretuner

questoin if i bought one of those things i could just pay someone to do it for me, if i did how much would it cost total to tune it not including the apexi thing

zlancer

iTrader: (1)

well...you would most probably need to dyno tune it for best results. the shop i work with charged $150 an hour for dyno tuning with the AFC and other stuff. if your lucky you can find a shop around $75 an hour.

HobieKopek

iTrader: (8)

Someone meaning a person from the forums or someone meaning a shop? A properly trained shop could install and tune it just fine, but I would say it's not worth buying unless you either have or plan on having extensive mods.

bahamut

Ooops, I didn't think the ES has one. I'm mostly hang around the OZ crowd and have never really looked at the ES cluster.


"does the opposite hold at lower RPM's to get more power off the line or will that just dump to much fuel at idle?"

dumping too much fuel at idle is just wasting gas and rough idling

the key is to burn fuel effieciently.



"Is an FPR a big plus when doing the MAS swap for this sort of thing?"

I'm not big on the FPR, but it's much less hassle than changing a FP. If you're not using any forced induction, FPR isn't that necessary.

bahamut

here's some ideas


http://www.roadraceengineering.com/newafc-print.htm
Basic idea

http://www.10south.net/~mprobins/eclipse/3gfaq.html
More basic idea from the 3g guys


http://www.saturnspeed.com/hardcore_tech/safc_setup.htm
DO NOT TUNE IT TO THE SPECS OF A SATURN . . . THEY USE MAP SENSOR, NOT KARMAN

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/newafcsetting.htm
another basic idea

hardcoretuner

any idea on possible gains if tuned correctly with an intake and full exhaust? i plan on keeping my lancer NA and am runnin out of ideas