View Poll Results: What should kareem port?
Port the TB flange more, but the runners are fine
0
0%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll
Thanks to lookslikeanevo (rigos)...
I wouldn't have sent that one out just yet. look at the edge, see the "pencil marks" that's where the edge of the gasket was. I work to completely remove that mark with the grinder and to get as smooth a curve as I can. They're not always perfect, but I try to make them not "wobbly" like we're seeing. I can't see the angle very well (because 3D vision is a limitation photography probably won't overcome 
) but the depth looks alright.
Kareem, you can clean that up with a half round file and sandpaper, or a dremel (use the sanding cylinders and lots of WD40) if you don't have a die grinder. You can also knock the edges off the "teeth" that are made by the injector guides. I'm not a neat-freak about those, but if you want to round them off some more or remove them, that's REAL easy to do with just a regular file.
there is no reason to take away any more material around the opening of the runners going past the gasket will yield no gains. When I gasket-matched my head, I didn't even go past the gasket- now the two parts (head and IM) match up nicely.
as for the TB opening- hard to tell. on the G93 I completely remove the lip at the opening. use a caliper at the vertical and horizontal axes and the diagonals (from bolt hole to bolt hole). I try to get at least 60mm at each of the 4 diameters, and on the one I have on my car it's closer to 60.5mm. These are hard to get perfectly round, but measuring across the 4 axes helps keep it close.
now, that being said you really don't have to make ANY changes to this manifold to notice nice gains, compared to even a ported G94 manifold. for that matter, a stock G93 would probably flow better than a ported G94, so you're way ahead in that respect.
) but the depth looks alright.Kareem, you can clean that up with a half round file and sandpaper, or a dremel (use the sanding cylinders and lots of WD40) if you don't have a die grinder. You can also knock the edges off the "teeth" that are made by the injector guides. I'm not a neat-freak about those, but if you want to round them off some more or remove them, that's REAL easy to do with just a regular file.
there is no reason to take away any more material around the opening of the runners going past the gasket will yield no gains. When I gasket-matched my head, I didn't even go past the gasket- now the two parts (head and IM) match up nicely.
as for the TB opening- hard to tell. on the G93 I completely remove the lip at the opening. use a caliper at the vertical and horizontal axes and the diagonals (from bolt hole to bolt hole). I try to get at least 60mm at each of the 4 diameters, and on the one I have on my car it's closer to 60.5mm. These are hard to get perfectly round, but measuring across the 4 axes helps keep it close.
now, that being said you really don't have to make ANY changes to this manifold to notice nice gains, compared to even a ported G94 manifold. for that matter, a stock G93 would probably flow better than a ported G94, so you're way ahead in that respect.
Originally Posted by engineerboy
I wouldn't have sent that one out just yet. look at the edge, see the "pencil marks" that's where the edge of the gasket was. I work to completely remove that mark with the grinder and to get as smooth a curve as I can. They're not always perfect, but I try to make them not "wobbly" like we're seeing. I can't see the angle very well (because 3D vision is a limitation photography probably won't overcome ) but the depth looks alright.
Kareem, you can clean that up with a half round file and sandpaper, or a dremel (use the sanding cylinders and lots of WD40) if you don't have a die grinder. You can also knock the edges off the "teeth" that are made by the injector guides. I'm not a neat-freak about those, but if you want to round them off some more or remove them, that's REAL easy to do with just a regular file.
there is no reason to take away any more material around the opening of the runners going past the gasket will yield no gains. When I gasket-matched my head, I didn't even go past the gasket- now the two parts (head and IM) match up nicely.
as for the TB opening- hard to tell. on the G93 I completely remove the lip at the opening. use a caliper at the vertical and horizontal axes and the diagonals (from bolt hole to bolt hole). I try to get at least 60mm at each of the 4 diameters, and on the one I have on my car it's closer to 60.5mm. These are hard to get perfectly round, but measuring across the 4 axes helps keep it close.
now, that being said you really don't have to make ANY changes to this manifold to notice nice gains, compared to even a ported G94 manifold. for that matter, a stock G93 would probably flow better than a ported G94, so you're way ahead in that respect.
) but the depth looks alright.Kareem, you can clean that up with a half round file and sandpaper, or a dremel (use the sanding cylinders and lots of WD40) if you don't have a die grinder. You can also knock the edges off the "teeth" that are made by the injector guides. I'm not a neat-freak about those, but if you want to round them off some more or remove them, that's REAL easy to do with just a regular file.
there is no reason to take away any more material around the opening of the runners going past the gasket will yield no gains. When I gasket-matched my head, I didn't even go past the gasket- now the two parts (head and IM) match up nicely.
as for the TB opening- hard to tell. on the G93 I completely remove the lip at the opening. use a caliper at the vertical and horizontal axes and the diagonals (from bolt hole to bolt hole). I try to get at least 60mm at each of the 4 diameters, and on the one I have on my car it's closer to 60.5mm. These are hard to get perfectly round, but measuring across the 4 axes helps keep it close.
now, that being said you really don't have to make ANY changes to this manifold to notice nice gains, compared to even a ported G94 manifold. for that matter, a stock G93 would probably flow better than a ported G94, so you're way ahead in that respect.
just open pic 1. around the opening you'll see the ring that goes all the way around, about 1/4 from the opening. that's NOT the one I'm talking about. Look closely at the opening itself. See that black line? that's what I'm talking about. It looks like a pencil mark. it's a mark that the gasket leaves, and that's approximately what I use as my guide to removing material. I actually take a gasket, bolt it to the IM and scribe where I'm going to remove material, but they're almost always right on that line.
my MSPaint skills are teh sux, but I think the pic shows what I'm talking about... open it full screen
and really, it doesn't matter, it's a very minor detail, and as I said it'll work fine as is.
my MSPaint skills are teh sux, but I think the pic shows what I'm talking about... open it full screen
and really, it doesn't matter, it's a very minor detail, and as I said it'll work fine as is.
Last edited by engineerboy; Apr 1, 2005 at 12:07 PM.
Originally Posted by engineerboy
I wouldn't have sent that one out just yet. look at the edge, see the "pencil marks" that's where the edge of the gasket was. I work to completely remove that mark with the grinder and to get as smooth a curve as I can. They're not always perfect, but I try to make them not "wobbly" like we're seeing. I can't see the angle very well (because 3D vision is a limitation photography probably won't overcome ) but the depth looks alright.
Kareem, you can clean that up with a half round file and sandpaper, or a dremel (use the sanding cylinders and lots of WD40) if you don't have a die grinder. You can also knock the edges off the "teeth" that are made by the injector guides. I'm not a neat-freak about those, but if you want to round them off some more or remove them, that's REAL easy to do with just a regular file.
there is no reason to take away any more material around the opening of the runners going past the gasket will yield no gains. When I gasket-matched my head, I didn't even go past the gasket- now the two parts (head and IM) match up nicely.
as for the TB opening- hard to tell. on the G93 I completely remove the lip at the opening. use a caliper at the vertical and horizontal axes and the diagonals (from bolt hole to bolt hole). I try to get at least 60mm at each of the 4 diameters, and on the one I have on my car it's closer to 60.5mm. These are hard to get perfectly round, but measuring across the 4 axes helps keep it close.
now, that being said you really don't have to make ANY changes to this manifold to notice nice gains, compared to even a ported G94 manifold. for that matter, a stock G93 would probably flow better than a ported G94, so you're way ahead in that respect.
) but the depth looks alright.Kareem, you can clean that up with a half round file and sandpaper, or a dremel (use the sanding cylinders and lots of WD40) if you don't have a die grinder. You can also knock the edges off the "teeth" that are made by the injector guides. I'm not a neat-freak about those, but if you want to round them off some more or remove them, that's REAL easy to do with just a regular file.
there is no reason to take away any more material around the opening of the runners going past the gasket will yield no gains. When I gasket-matched my head, I didn't even go past the gasket- now the two parts (head and IM) match up nicely.
as for the TB opening- hard to tell. on the G93 I completely remove the lip at the opening. use a caliper at the vertical and horizontal axes and the diagonals (from bolt hole to bolt hole). I try to get at least 60mm at each of the 4 diameters, and on the one I have on my car it's closer to 60.5mm. These are hard to get perfectly round, but measuring across the 4 axes helps keep it close.
now, that being said you really don't have to make ANY changes to this manifold to notice nice gains, compared to even a ported G94 manifold. for that matter, a stock G93 would probably flow better than a ported G94, so you're way ahead in that respect.
1 and 2 were 1/2 way thru porting and 3 and 4 are stock, no porting.
And as far as the "wobblyness" I heard that if u make it TOO smooth (port AND polish) then the engine wouldnt like that.
Could u clarify what u mean by the injector guides? Cuz im having a tough time figuring out what u mean by that.
As far as the TB opening goes im gonna measure that with a caliper and get it as close to 60mm as possible. Is the stock TB gasket 60mm or do i need to change/grind that too?
Thanks for ur help Engineerboy.
there's polishing and then there's having a nice finish. I can get the opening pretty smooth with just my grinding bur, and it's definitely not polished. In a couple pics the opening looks sort of scalloped.... I would just go over that with either a sanding roll or sand it by hand. But then, it could just be a trick of the light, because I obviously can't get a finger in there to feel how smooth it is.
the injector guides (my term) are the squarish gaps on the upper part of the runner, that guide the mist of fuel into the cylinder.
the stock TB gasket is pretty huge I just installed my ported TB, expecting to have to mess with the gasket and I don't. and I've not seen any problems with the stock gasket on a ported IM, either (it doesn't look like it's been nearly sucked into the engine or anything). I'd say it's fine.
Last time I'm saying this
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with what I'm seeing, in my opinion. Dyno for dyno, if we were to take this IM and one of mine and put them on the same car, under the same conditions, I sincerely doubt we'd see any difference whatsoever. I'm more offering aesthetic advice than mechanical advice at this point. For example: I really like the look of #4. There's no discernable line, the shape looks good and it looks pretty smooth on the inside. it looks like he really took his time and had better control over the tools.
the injector guides (my term) are the squarish gaps on the upper part of the runner, that guide the mist of fuel into the cylinder.
the stock TB gasket is pretty huge
I just installed my ported TB, expecting to have to mess with the gasket and I don't. and I've not seen any problems with the stock gasket on a ported IM, either (it doesn't look like it's been nearly sucked into the engine or anything). I'd say it's fine.Last time I'm saying this
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with what I'm seeing, in my opinion. Dyno for dyno, if we were to take this IM and one of mine and put them on the same car, under the same conditions, I sincerely doubt we'd see any difference whatsoever. I'm more offering aesthetic advice than mechanical advice at this point. For example: I really like the look of #4. There's no discernable line, the shape looks good and it looks pretty smooth on the inside. it looks like he really took his time and had better control over the tools.
Last edited by engineerboy; Apr 1, 2005 at 12:21 PM.
Aight cool, thats just what i needed to hear. I'll clean up the job a lil by sanding it by hand and using WD40. What do u recommend to clean the shavings off the inside before installing it? I REALLY dont wanna have any particles of metal being sucked into my engine. 
EDIT: Also what grit sandpaper did u use for the sanding by hand to clean things up?
EDIT: Also what grit sandpaper did u use for the sanding by hand to clean things up?
I fill my shop sink with hot water and Dawn liquid (dawntakes grease outta my way!) and pretty much just rinse water through the runners (dip plenum end in first, and tip it up so the water goes through the runners). Then drain the sink and use a hose (with out an attachment end) to get more water through the runners. I also take a towel with some Dawn on it and rub around inside the runner as deep as I can (putting the towel over the end of the hose and running it through that way works pretty well) and then just pull the towel out. Frequent water changes are the key, and hot water, too.
So far so good on the 2 IMs and cylinder head I've ported and installed on the car.
for papers I use 220 wet/dry and lube the runner with WD40, too. you can wear gloves if you're a pansy
So far so good on the 2 IMs and cylinder head I've ported and installed on the car.
for papers I use 220 wet/dry and lube the runner with WD40, too. you can wear gloves if you're a pansy
Originally Posted by rhyzin
looks good kareem. the IM should offset all the audio you got 
hehehe... wanna come out to the drags on the 9th?
hehehe... wanna come out to the drags on the 9th?
But I think im going the performance route now. Starting with an intake then working back to the fartpipe (Intake, Bored TB, Ported 4g93 IM, Headers, Buschur DP, High flow cat (i dont want free flow so that my torque isnt killed), then a full 2.25" catback exhaust (maybe just custom make a 2.25" piping for my current magnaflow axleback).
no more audio? at least you won't be doing 19's on the 1/4 again
come out and represent then. i kinda want sclc to come out so we can tape some runs. (i should post that over there hehehe)
come out and represent then. i kinda want sclc to come out so we can tape some runs. (i should post that over there hehehe)
rhyzin what were ya trying to compare?....im lost
thanks eboy and rhyzin for the tips...
for the record: i only sold this manifold because of my accident. :sigh: ill have one on my car soon enough
thanks eboy and rhyzin for the tips...
for the record: i only sold this manifold because of my accident. :sigh: ill have one on my car soon enough
oh yeah. almost forgot. i was saying that the runner hole was the right size. everything looks great. i kinda posted that when i was just waking up. coming to the drags rigo? you and kareem can carpool unless you wanna run with no bumper, hehehe.