Sprint Booster, how does it work?
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From: Canuckistan
In some ways I know I should not really engage in this, but I guess when someone calls me out on something, I guess I cant resist. You have cited my words before and I responded, and I will do the same here if you intend on bringing me into this.
"There are also claims that this product will change the way the CVT acts"
Is that a fact? lol if your going to cite me, by all means, say my name. dont refer to me as there are some claims. lol second there are my claims.
a Automatic fix gear transmission and a CVT governed by INVECS III. Are two completely different systems. I will use clean words to express how ignorant you are in making sweeping generalizations. If your going to claim something make sure you know what the hell your talking about. I have been up up and down the specs on the CVT system, I am commited to a boost project. I have attempt to learn everything I can about the CVT and its logics. Jatco the maker of the CVT with its end user clients Mitsu, Chrysler Nissan.... etc... They keep some of there systems and logics proprietary and there are something we will never know unless we are on the inside. but there are papers that describe in detail some features of the CVT system in question.
Based on my research and my personal experience (remember that metric based on your standards is uses) that the CVT implementation in the Lancer always fell flat. I have mentioned this all the way thru my projects and the history of my car. This is the first product I have scene, that actually works in improving the responsiveness of the CVT system. I dont care if its sprint booster, or the Blitz throttle controller, or as you may say soemone who can duplicate the effects of such a device for 10 dollars lol haha. Which I might add, is quite an idea. Actually if someone can actually duplicate this product for 10 dollars, or 15 dollars, hell even $50. I will put it in writing , I will pony up a prize pool. for someone who can recreate such a device. Let me put that in bold. It must allow the car to operate the same identical manner and behavior as either the sprint booster or Blitz controller unit. That said. All you gotta do is document what you did and I will cut you the check myself, or better yet fire it off thru paypal. I will pay the shipping to get it to me for testing.
How about it amby, if its as easy as you say or not worth the $300 expensive price tag. Dont talk about Sprint Booster , or Blitz people, your talking to me on this one.
Getting back to the agrument. I am confident that I can put this module or any similar one in anyone CVT car, and I am 100% certain, any experienced CVT driver will perfer the unit vs. without. Forget words of feelings, or impressions, or placebo effects. This is straight up function and use!
Edit: I left one point out....
You created this thread for what reason? there was a previous thread which you help close. now you have created another one outside of the Canadian section one. Why is it you continue to rail against everything. You start a new thread, quote someone else research , which i might add, is more credible then what you have put together, I havent had the time to read thru the article you sourced but it sounds like the person at least tried it. It doesnt matter to me if it is right or not, its good to see that someone scientifically tries it out.
I made this claim before, and I will make it again, there were other threads for sometime about the Blitz Throttle Controller, you gave a response that it wasnt busy enough for you to comment on or something like that. but you have all the energy in the world to rage against the sprint booster threads. lol I dont understand is there some hidden beef that you have with them or something. Did JRP charge you too much for an intake. What ???? lol haha
To bring everyone update date on this position Amby has, you should start here
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/la...w-product.html
then when you finish reading that go here
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ca...th-2009-a.html
Then ask your self why lol
"There are also claims that this product will change the way the CVT acts"
Is that a fact? lol if your going to cite me, by all means, say my name. dont refer to me as there are some claims. lol second there are my claims.
a Automatic fix gear transmission and a CVT governed by INVECS III. Are two completely different systems. I will use clean words to express how ignorant you are in making sweeping generalizations. If your going to claim something make sure you know what the hell your talking about. I have been up up and down the specs on the CVT system, I am commited to a boost project. I have attempt to learn everything I can about the CVT and its logics. Jatco the maker of the CVT with its end user clients Mitsu, Chrysler Nissan.... etc... They keep some of there systems and logics proprietary and there are something we will never know unless we are on the inside. but there are papers that describe in detail some features of the CVT system in question.
Based on my research and my personal experience (remember that metric based on your standards is uses) that the CVT implementation in the Lancer always fell flat. I have mentioned this all the way thru my projects and the history of my car. This is the first product I have scene, that actually works in improving the responsiveness of the CVT system. I dont care if its sprint booster, or the Blitz throttle controller, or as you may say soemone who can duplicate the effects of such a device for 10 dollars lol haha. Which I might add, is quite an idea. Actually if someone can actually duplicate this product for 10 dollars, or 15 dollars, hell even $50. I will put it in writing , I will pony up a prize pool. for someone who can recreate such a device. Let me put that in bold. It must allow the car to operate the same identical manner and behavior as either the sprint booster or Blitz controller unit. That said. All you gotta do is document what you did and I will cut you the check myself, or better yet fire it off thru paypal. I will pay the shipping to get it to me for testing.
How about it amby, if its as easy as you say or not worth the $300 expensive price tag. Dont talk about Sprint Booster , or Blitz people, your talking to me on this one.
Getting back to the agrument. I am confident that I can put this module or any similar one in anyone CVT car, and I am 100% certain, any experienced CVT driver will perfer the unit vs. without. Forget words of feelings, or impressions, or placebo effects. This is straight up function and use!
Edit: I left one point out....
You created this thread for what reason? there was a previous thread which you help close. now you have created another one outside of the Canadian section one. Why is it you continue to rail against everything. You start a new thread, quote someone else research , which i might add, is more credible then what you have put together, I havent had the time to read thru the article you sourced but it sounds like the person at least tried it. It doesnt matter to me if it is right or not, its good to see that someone scientifically tries it out.
I made this claim before, and I will make it again, there were other threads for sometime about the Blitz Throttle Controller, you gave a response that it wasnt busy enough for you to comment on or something like that. but you have all the energy in the world to rage against the sprint booster threads. lol I dont understand is there some hidden beef that you have with them or something. Did JRP charge you too much for an intake. What ???? lol haha
To bring everyone update date on this position Amby has, you should start here
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/la...w-product.html
then when you finish reading that go here
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ca...th-2009-a.html
Then ask your self why lol
Luda, how can a product that simply amplifies the throttle signal do more than what the pedal can do? It's impossible.
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From: the land between lancer and evo
You haven't answered the question, you've said this same thing over and over again, but you avoid answering the question. You claim to have done extensive research yet you cannot explain how this product can change the fundamental behaviour of a CVT transmission. How can a product that has no direct interaction with the ECU or the TCU make a transmission shift faster or better by simply amplifying a throttle signal? Seriously, explain this. You haven't, you just dismiss it by saying you've done all this research. Well that's BS. I don't give a crap how much research you claim to have done, you're practicing bad science here. I take it seriously because this is how crappy trends get started. Somebody reads that this product will do X, they believe it and start spreading it as gospel despite it going against logic. You can get pissy all you want about it but no one, not even the manufacturer, has addressed these issues. Moreover people have directly contradicted themselves which further hurts the claims.
Luda, how can a product that simply amplifies the throttle signal do more than what the pedal can do? It's impossible.
Luda, how can a product that simply amplifies the throttle signal do more than what the pedal can do? It's impossible.
I am impressed with your noble heart to save the world from themselves. I would love to have you with me the next time I go shopping.
That aside. I explained this to you amby, and on many occasions, in the two previous threads that we battled about this over and over and over again. I bought my thoughts into and argued my points. I am sure someone can do a search and include our names and CVT and I am sure they can find my answers. there are about 10 pages of it. I am too tired to go thru this again and i dont want this to continue, but meh.... I must. I am not out to sell anyone anything, I just report back to people on my blog what I am doing and what I have running on. Its that simple. If I did have business gains to make. I would be doing other things with my vendor status instead of trying to run a car club. Anyways lets finally address this issue one more time for you.
I have argued my point from the perspective of the CVT because well, to be frank, its a stupid Transmission which overrides the demands of the driver and subsitutes it with an economy operating profile in D mode. If you do not drive a CVT it will be a concept for you hard to understand. That is a fact. Without trying something as simple as driving our CVT you will have little understand of what the problem is.
Look at the mitsubishi website and their explination of their technology
http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/cor...e/invecs3.html
INVECS-III CVT
INVECS-III CVT achieves low fuel consumption and a smooth ride
INVECS = Intelligent & Innovative Vehicle Electronic Control System
CVT = Continuously Variable Transmission
INVECS-III is an advanced system that automatically selects the optimal gear ratio based on road and driving conditions ("optimal control"), and utilizes "learning control" to match the particular driver's driving style. In addition, a CVT that brings out the efficiency from the engine performance is provided. Like a conventional automatic transmission, there is no jolt when shifting gears and every time the accelerator is applied there is enjoyable, smooth acceleration.
Furthermore , a torque converter enables creep forward driving (slight deceleration) when the accelerator is not applied and hillstarts are made fun.
The Continuously Variable Transmission makes for optimal driving pleasure by downsizing the pulley piston, reducing the oil pump discharge rate, and controlling direct torque control. All of this results in efficient engine output, offering drivers an exceptionally smooth ride. Based on driver demand as measured by accelerator travel information, optimal efficiency is achieved between the engine and CVT according to the motive forces experienced under driving circumstances. Supple acceleration and smooth driving feel are realized in all kinds of conditions while also improving fuel economy.
the CVT platform is by its nature suppost to provide the user power but within the confines of its programming. How does the CVT software figure out what you want? Well Amby, the pedal that you step on is one very large factor. This we can label "user input/demand" Lets assume that the Sprint booster is a simple and dumb as you suggestion and all it does is in a dumb way amplify the signal. The CVT interperates changes in your input and determines how much power its going to give you in terms of what the Engine RPM matching and CVT gear ratio you are going to get.
Getting back to my personal experience and opinion. This is the major flaw in the CVT, with out sprint booster. you have to constantly apply more force until you get the right amount or output response you get. For everyone who drives there car in D mode, you know what I m talking about. It doesnt matter if you are cruising the streets, or driving on the highway. The transmission just doesnt undrestand what you want. Why because its programming in my opinion is too geared towards economy and not power performance.
Using a third party throttle controller, you can increase that demand and allow your CVT to understand exactly how much power you want. I dont understand why I have to say this all so many times over and over again. please someone go back and count how many times I have said this. lol I give up.
Amby, I have made calls to Mitsubishi about this, talk to techs, I have spoken with Jatco about this, I have read more white papers then i would like to on our variant of CVTs, I do not think you have investigated CVT operation or driven a CVT as I have. I am no expert, not by a long shot and never claim to be one. But I have a leg to stand on, on the topic because I have asked questions and gotten answers. So dont dismiss my input as puppycock because I havent reported everyone of my findings to you.
But if you would like to expand your knowledge of CVT systems, feel free to read some of the stuff I dug up and posted here on the forum, they are very interesting reads in terms of the CVT operation and theory
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/la...gn-2005-a.html
and
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/la...explained.html
Last edited by evo_soul; Mar 31, 2009 at 06:10 PM.
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From: Canuckistan
OK, according to the Sprint Booster website, it is just an amplifier, nothing more. This isn't my opinion, this is something the manufacturer states. Again, if all this product does is amplify the stock signal so as to hit WOT faster (again, what the manufacturer says it does), how can it change the way the transmission works in a way outside of what a stock car is capable of? This product cannot change the programming in a higher level way, it simply cannot.
I don't care how many people you've talked to because you're either A. asking the wrong questions or B. interpreting the information wrong. People are touting this product as some wonder product when it's not, as stated by the manufacturer itself, it just amplifies the throttle signal, nothing more.
Edit: I'm not trying to protect people from themselves, I'm trying to protect them from ignorant sellers of snake oil. No, this is not directed at you but is a generalized statement referencing all the people who sell products with little automotive backing and lots of marketing.
I don't care how many people you've talked to because you're either A. asking the wrong questions or B. interpreting the information wrong. People are touting this product as some wonder product when it's not, as stated by the manufacturer itself, it just amplifies the throttle signal, nothing more.
Edit: I'm not trying to protect people from themselves, I'm trying to protect them from ignorant sellers of snake oil. No, this is not directed at you but is a generalized statement referencing all the people who sell products with little automotive backing and lots of marketing.
Last edited by ambystom01; Mar 31, 2009 at 06:18 PM.
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From: the land between lancer and evo
OK, according to the Sprint Booster website, it is just an amplifier, nothing more. This isn't my opinion, this is something the manufacturer states. Again, if all this product does is amplify the stock signal so as to hit WOT faster (again, what the manufacturer says it does), how can it change the way the transmission works in a way outside of what a stock car is capable of? This product cannot change the programming in a higher level way, it simply cannot.
I don't care how many people you've talked to because you're either A. asking the wrong questions or B. interpreting the information wrong. People are touting this product as some wonder product when it's not, as stated by the manufacturer itself, it just amplifies the throttle signal, nothing more.
Edit: I'm not trying to protect people from themselves, I'm trying to protect them from ignorant sellers of snake oil. No, this is not directed at you but is a generalized statement referencing all the people who sell products with little automotive backing and lots of marketing.
I don't care how many people you've talked to because you're either A. asking the wrong questions or B. interpreting the information wrong. People are touting this product as some wonder product when it's not, as stated by the manufacturer itself, it just amplifies the throttle signal, nothing more.
Edit: I'm not trying to protect people from themselves, I'm trying to protect them from ignorant sellers of snake oil. No, this is not directed at you but is a generalized statement referencing all the people who sell products with little automotive backing and lots of marketing.
Bring it back to the CVT buddy. read your post again, I responded. Dont accuse me of not answering you cause thats a crock of $#*(#$ . Stop doing that!!! I dont care about anything else exept the fact that you keep calling me out on a point aI prove it and you say nothing to it.
My honest opinion, I dont think its humanly possible for you to admit you are wrong or even partly wrong on anything.
I can, and alot of people here can. but you cant. I would attempt to go thru your posts all 10,000 of them but i dont think I will find the words, your right, or I am wrong lol
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From: Canuckistan
It's called responding to the point, which wasn't made very well anyways. You explained how the CVT works (which I already knew), and you said how the SB could change it (which I've stated myself in the past) yet you didn't answer the big question, how is it any different from the stock learning ability of the transmission? The SB doesn't plug into the TCU, hell, it doesn't even plug into the ECU directly, it just amplifies a signal thus simulating a full throttle position at something other than full throttle.
Edit: If I'm actually wrong, I have no problem saying it but in this case it's pretty clear I'm not. You're massively overreaching the abilities of some voltage amplifier. You might as well say it makes the car handle better.
Edit: If I'm actually wrong, I have no problem saying it but in this case it's pretty clear I'm not. You're massively overreaching the abilities of some voltage amplifier. You might as well say it makes the car handle better.
• Sprint Booster does not increase Horsepower.
• Sprint Booster does not reduce your 0-60mph times.
• Sprint Booster DOES make your car 'FEEL' faster.
• Sprint Booster DOES cause a lot of controversy on evolutionm.net
Fixed.
I'm with amby on this one - overreaching is the right word.
• Sprint Booster does not reduce your 0-60mph times.
• Sprint Booster DOES make your car 'FEEL' faster.
• Sprint Booster DOES cause a lot of controversy on evolutionm.net
Fixed.
I'm with amby on this one - overreaching is the right word.
Last edited by nj_08_gts; Mar 31, 2009 at 06:31 PM.
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From: the land between lancer and evo
Look, I drive my car like normal person. I dont go anywhere near full throttle, actually, with or without sprint booster its pretty rare that I go anywhere near 75%. i am referring to normal driving, not pedal mashing. I am talking about 50% and lower give or take. I am talking about the attitude of the car when driving in normal city situations, overtaking, firm and solid acceleration. This is my good old scientific obervation. The responsiveness of the car is increased, I am sorry I can not quantify this in the metric you are seeking but you have to drive a car with a CVT to understand. With Sprint booster there is a good level of predictability of where that RPM needle is when you press the pedal for more power. Before SB, you always had to step on the pedal, a little more, a little more, and finally a little more before it unleashed the proper level of power.
If you cant piece this all together with what I have just provided. I have over estimated your ability to understand my point of view.
I will send a bulletin to the BBB lol
If you cant piece this all together with what I have just provided. I have over estimated your ability to understand my point of view.
I will send a bulletin to the BBB lol
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From: Canada
Just keep an eye on 20/20 and Dateline, they like testing stuff like this and tell people the truth. It might end up as a test subject one day, like the Tornado, the fuel line magnet, the magical motor oil additive that let your car run laps on the race track after removing all the oil from your car...
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From: Canuckistan
Look, I drive my car like normal person. I dont go anywhere near full throttle, actually, with or without sprint booster its pretty rare that I go anywhere near 75%. i am referring to normal driving, not pedal mashing. I am talking about 50% and lower give or take. I am talking about the attitude of the car when driving in normal city situations, overtaking, firm and solid acceleration. This is my good old scientific obervation. The responsiveness of the car is increased, I am sorry I can not quantify this in the metric you are seeking but you have to drive a car with a CVT to understand. With Sprint booster there is a good level of predictability of where that RPM needle is when you press the pedal for more power. Before SB, you always had to step on the pedal, a little more, a little more, and finally a little more before it unleashed the proper level of power.
If you cant piece this all together with what I have just provided. I have over estimated your ability to understand my point of view.
I will send a bulletin to the BBB lol
If you cant piece this all together with what I have just provided. I have over estimated your ability to understand my point of view.
I will send a bulletin to the BBB lol
This "third party controller" literally cannot, in any way "allow your CVT to understand how much power you want"
it doesn't communicate with the CVT at all. It doesn't communicate with the ECU either. So it's physically impossible for it to really DO anything other than increase the signal.
which like Amby said, just applying more throttle will yield the same result. If you want the CVT to learn a more aggressive driving style, then just save your $300, and move your foot an inch or so closer to the ground.
Last edited by crypto; Mar 31, 2009 at 09:29 PM. Reason: spelling
A good question to ask is, would it reduce quarter mile times? I dont have a CVT but from what I've read CVT takes time to "kick in" when you WOT it. If this product reduces this time. It should also reduce 1/4 Mile times right