Amby>>>>Ok, I get , idoesnt matter how well, I describe feedback of the drive. Its not scientific enough by some peoples standards. I guess I am the wrong type of scientist.

Cranky>>> "near miracles" for the CVT? hardly, I just identify an improvement in control of the LOW Mivec high TQ profile. Which I would say is a very good thing.

Back to the arguement>>>>But that doesnt matter to some out there. What we need is hard fact! correct Amby? I have another proposal since you are unable to come off the high horse of truth and justice of the purse.

I am willing to submit my model maybe even my car to anyone who wishes to pilot it (But I would think my girlfriend might suggest we use the test persons car lol), and to make it transparent, I am willing to whip out my trusty Scan Tool which is completely unlocked and able to monitor all MITSU power train and transmission information.

That seems more scientific. And we will choose anyone you think would be neutral in the matter. All I ask is that its someone who is a seasoned stock CVT driver? i am willing to record some data and get some live feedback?

Anyone care to bite on this particular test? No Jedi Mind Tricking here, just need someone who is willing to be the neutral party and report back the findings. I will further reinforce that we are not talking about Aggressive WOT driving, I am talking about good nice, enjoyable spirited driving. I would do it myself but I want to avoid the, well he made it look a certain and it cant be trusted. Which is a bit absurd because I have no financial gain in this.

But for the sake of full disclosure.....
I wear two hats, one hat as a founder of the Toronto Lancer Car club and one hat that does special projects for my own amusement and research, my goal is to improve my understanding of the lancer and evo and work to make things better, at least in my eyes. In terms of the Car club hat, JRP is a vendor, one of many that I interact with for parts sourcing and group buys. JRP is a distributor of Sprint Booster not the maker of it, like many other products they carry, they are just a distributor. Hense the easy access to the product. That said, I paid with my own money for the product and have invoices to prove it. So dont think I am in anyones pocket. I was some what suspicious of the product(human nature I guess), more or less because I didnt understand what good it would do me. But I said what the hell, I will give it a shot. Took it for a drive and I felt a benefit. I kept my mouth shut didnt say anything to the girlfriend and I was asked very early on, "what did you do to the car now", as I sat there pretending to be half sleeping. Simply put, Its hard to put into words, but something is there. lol and yes i feels good, as much as some would like to cringe at the thought. Thats where I stand and thats how this evolved.


So back to it.... The Quest for hard fact? Since I am more involved then I would like to be, I am comfortable for anyone else to conduct the testing.
Is this a valid test and if so how would you like to carry it out? So that its well balanced and measured? Since I just dont get it, maybe someone can help me to put this forward in a matter that is more logical and more scientific?

Below are some of the data fields that I think will be worthy to look into.


ENHANCED POWERTRAIN SENSORS

Absolute Load Value
Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor Main
Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor Sub
Calculated Load Value
Closed Throttle Position Switch
Relative TP Sensor
Throttle Actuator
TP Sensor - Main
TP Sensor - Main Learned Value
TP Sensor - Sub
Vehicle Speed


TransmissionCVT1400SeriesCAN Sensors
Acceleration/Deceleration Value
Accelerator Position
Engine Revolution
Gear Position - SP Mode
Primary Speed
Primary Speed Sensor Signal
Real Engine Torque
Real Variable Speed Ratio
Real Vehicle Speed
Target Primary Speed
Target Variable Speed Ratio
Vehicle Speed - Inference

There is alot more data that can be sourced but these were the ones i thought were relavant to the test here

here is the manual for the software
http://www.autoenginuity.com/dloads/...user_guide.pdf

and here is the complete list of unlocked sensors

http://www.autoenginuity.com/Mitsubi...t.html#sensors

 

When you do your tests, do one with the gadget removed and you apply quick 25% more throttle while driving and then compare numbers. The +25% by foot will take some practice to get used to every time you accelerate, but it's simple. Just imagine you're 30 minutes late from work. lol

 

"I kept my mouth shut didn't say anything to the girlfriend and I was asked very early on, "what did you do to the car now", as I sat there pretending to be half sleeping."

LOL If I start driving a little "spirited"", mine goes to me "are you in a rush doctor?".

 

Sorry but for 99% of people here "it feels faster" just doesn't cut it. Why do you think manufacturers have to post numbers. Some companies can get away with the whole "trust us" thing, but when it's a new and questionable product like this, numbers are essential.

Also you're testing idea would be inconclusive. The reason we have 0-60, 1/4 mile, HP/TQ numbers etc, is because those are precise and controlled. We can see actual results and see real improvement when parts are added.
When was the last time you heard K&N giving stats on a spirited drive?

 

I was thinking something along those lines in terms of testing for amplification differences as one part of the test, To take that one step further I was thinking that maybe the Cruise control system may assist in this, since it's acceleration would be more un-bias .

I am also trying to figure out a good set of things to monitor in terms of the RPM level and gear ratio during acceleration , this will not be easy. but I will try to put something together.

 

Once again, most of this is irrelevant. No one is denying that you will notice a difference, of course you, we simply think it's ridiculous to buy a product that merely makes the job of your right foot easier, not better. Science does not revolve around personal testing, it revolves around hard, precise data. You're never going to see a medical researcher go "well pill A made me feel like my cancer was cured, so therefore it cured my cancer". They'll measure tumor size before and after, measure the level of anti-tumor antibodies/tumor antigens, monitor angiogenesis within the tumor, etc. Same goes here, I don't care if someone who spent 300$ on a little black box thinks it worked, I need to know how it worked and proof that the product validates itself by exceeding the abilities of stock car. Would you buy an intake that just made the car louder while yielding zero HP because it makes you feel faster?
Your long list of sensors is basically irrelevant and is likely to over complicate the issue. I wouldn't be surprised if one or two of the sensors showed different values with the SB installed. However, unless we know exactly what those sensors do and whether this represents a significant deviation (ie. not just sampling error), it's useless data. This very problem comes up in genetic studies, if you sample enough genes, the chances of finding a correlating effect increases even if it makes zero sense (ie. you could find a gene that correlates to fashion sense or ice cream preference).

 

This would be a useless test since the cruise control system doesn't use throttle input. You might as well put the car in neutral and push it.

 

crypto>>>Sorry but for 99% of people here "it feels faster" just doesn't cut it. Why do you think manufacturers have to post numbers. Some companies can get away with the whole "trust us" thing, but when it's a new and questionable product like this, numbers are essential.

Not to promote Sprint Booster here, lol I think their marketing could be better. but I didnt see the "Trust Us" phrase, I think I saw something like "try it" with a return policy. I am not here to defend their Marketing Efforts. I am just out to collect data


crypto>>>Also you're testing idea would be inconclusive. The reason we have 0-60, 1/4 mile, HP/TQ numbers etc, is because those are precise and controlled. We can see actual results and see real improvement when parts are added.
When was the last time you heard K&N giving stats on a spirited drive?

My testing idea would be inconclusive? so you dont think it would be a better idea to monitor the sensors? how do you come up with that? Are you now telling me the sensors would be lying on their own to produce a possible improvement with Sprint Booster? You asked for Less comments of "FEEL" and more data, well you didnt I think amby asked for this. Tell me why monitoring the things mentioned would be a valid pursuit?

Second, 0-60, given the CVT's special operation abilities, I think it would be a great thing to add to the test, that and 0-60 times as well. I think thats a great idea!!! thanks

Finally K&N isnt in the realm of throttle control devices, they do intakes, that said Sprint Booster isnt the only company in this space of throttle controllers, Blitz which is a very well know Japanese company that makes a range of products, as well as boost controllers. What of their claims? Just as miss leading?

 

well the try us free is actually a brilliant idea because of the placebo effect. Like Amby said, people will buy the product expecting a result, and "feel" an improvement. But in reality there is none.

Your test date would be inconclusive from a spirited drive. There are so many variables in taking the car around town for a drive with and without the SB. You'd never get a set of results accurate enough to measure any difference. Also you'd probably spend most of your life analyzing the results, figuring out errors and weeding out the useless info (eg. stop lights, traffic jams, gusts of wind, you sneezing)

 

0-60 is useless, even SB says this right on their homepage. Once again, just because other companies make a product doesn't validate its existence. A lot of companies make grounding kits, Tornado-like systems, etc.

 

Exactly this "try it free" marketing idea is both brilliant and ****ing horrible at the same time. The only people who will consider it are those that have some interest in the product, they might not be right on board instantly but they think they might want it. If they buy it, after reading all the "it's great" stories online, they'll be looking for gains. It's like all the products you see on infomercials.

 

Classic example are those HP chips you see on ebay. Look at the feedback from the buyers, they ALL think it's the best thing since sliced bread. They all say it makes their car sooo much faster, and the acceleration is much better.
They aren't making it up, they all honestly think their car is faster. But we all know from looking at the data (and common mechanical sense) they are totally incorrect and their cars are actually worse off from the mod.

 

Why when i use a word, it becomes a catch phrase of the company lol. So in your opinion, is there no test on earth that can validate this or any other product.

Making claims is a two way street, and please logic is a poor substitute. Please validate your claims of a placebo effect. dont explain it to me, prove it. To say something does something, and not prove it is pretty Illogical conclution. Since your following Amby's lead on this I will let him explain it. He is a Vulcan you know This is a two way street, if all my experience and perspective is rendered useless, its fair to assume by the same standards the other side of the argument is equality useless.

Getting back to your claim that i highlighted above, your telling me, that the car would act exactly the same regardless. Lets factor both normal and ultra aggressive driving. you concluding without a trial, that there is no impact. and no gain. That sounds very odd. I mean what would be the harm of testing and viewing the very sensors that the TCU uses for making its calculations. Tell or explain to me and everyone one else here, why SENSOR data capture in its entirety a fruitless venture. See from Ambys post after yours, even 0-60 is useless. Which I disagree with, I beleive its a pretty good indicator, the only problem is sometimes it can be inconclusive because there is a human element to it, or I should say human error. I think what you meant to say is all those types of tests, bring us closer to validating the results, no test is perfect in its controls. but its a building of evidence right?

 

Amby... the point of making the log would be to put to rest if smashing your foot or moving it faster will suffice instead of spending $300 for a Sprint Booster. Its an un biased result/comparison. Thats what a data log will do/does... it will allow people to see the in car effects instead of a multi meter test.

We all know what a TPS sensor does, a version of it is also in the pedal. Those two very simple sensors/logs compared with speed, G, and time will easily let you know what exactly is going on, and performance changes when you move the pedal. Those readings certainly aren't complex for ppl here.

Amby - I do share some traits with you. I do also need hard evidence/science behind a product, more so than you because I have a RacePak. True, the cruise control idea is not something you could test to make things a constant, it does not use the pedal input. A data log will allow you to cross reference any point or any sort of data at any time to let people see what improvments are made. It wouldn't matter who drove or how they drove, you can interval any information of the log to see whats happening in the car as you drive.

I've posted RacePak logs b4- yes I see they aren't detailed enough for some members here. When I offer to do more log detail, those same members here do not seem to endulge in requesting specific logs though to aid in proving themselves correct for the masses/public, why? The Racepak logging system is utilized in LMP1/2/ F1/WRC. But when I post RacePak logs here, no one seems to want to utilize its power to aid their opinion, good or bad towards the product. Making this request would have saved so much jargon/argument/band width, but it seems to be avoided, way b4 this thread was made.

Sure you can make a product like this for cheap... but can you do it with advertising, 50 different injection molds, supply on demand, R&D, go to SEMA, make a living and pay others for the same price? no.

 

I'm not saying no test can validate this product. Just that a spirited drive is about as useful as you pushing the car. The data collected would be useless because of all the variables.
A controlled test would be better. Like a 0-60. If you collected your data with a controlled test and showed us the results I'd be open to that.

Sorry to tell you this but YES, your opinion and perspective are completely irrelevant as they are subject to change and are an unreliable source of data.
If you're in a good mood the car may feel faster compared to when you're in a bad mood.
Now people can choose to take your opinion and base their purchase off it, but to most smart people, actual data showing improvement is gonna be the deciding factor when spending $300 on something.

Now saying all this, I honestly think you're wasting your time. Pretty much all the sensors are going to tell you is that with the sprint booster you are giving the car X amount more throttle when compared to driving without it.
Although, according to your logic, you will get a different set of results every time no matter how controlled because the "goal posts" are always being moved, with or without the SB
(because it doesn't control the transmission)

But it's your time and money, so have at it