ra gear swap into oz
Newbie
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: benton, ar
Would the final drive work in an automatic?
...and I don't think base lancers and RAs have the same diff. because the RA comes with a lsd and we do not.
...and I don't think base lancers and RAs have the same diff. because the RA comes with a lsd and we do not.
I was just going over some factory service manuals and realized a couple of things.
First, the 3G eclipse and the lancer have the same transmission. They are the same family and series (F5M42) and all the gear ratios are the same except the speedometer gear. This means that we should be able to just swap the lancer diff and speedometer gear to the eclipse tranny instead of having to swap all the lancer tranny internals.
Second, The ratio in the ralliart differential is different from ours. Depending on how they achieved the different ratio, (the ralliart differential input gear might be a different size and therefore not fit with the output shaft gear of the lancer/eclipse tranny) it might not work. I think in order to tell we are either going to need to find some specs about the numbers of teeth in both transmissions, or we will need to do some side by side comparisons of the differentials.
First, the 3G eclipse and the lancer have the same transmission. They are the same family and series (F5M42) and all the gear ratios are the same except the speedometer gear. This means that we should be able to just swap the lancer diff and speedometer gear to the eclipse tranny instead of having to swap all the lancer tranny internals.
Second, The ratio in the ralliart differential is different from ours. Depending on how they achieved the different ratio, (the ralliart differential input gear might be a different size and therefore not fit with the output shaft gear of the lancer/eclipse tranny) it might not work. I think in order to tell we are either going to need to find some specs about the numbers of teeth in both transmissions, or we will need to do some side by side comparisons of the differentials.
Evolving Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 132
Likes: 1
From: San Diego, Ca.
the lancers axels are shorter in length and in gerth.
swapping the motor to a 4G64 would require using the eclipse's axels.
the whole reason behind swapping out the internals of the eclipse tranny and with the lancer's bell housing is so no more moey is spent buying/fabbing "custom" axels.
the 4G69's tranny is the same as the lancer's i believe and therefore would not work on the swap.
swapping the motor to a 4G64 would require using the eclipse's axels.
the whole reason behind swapping out the internals of the eclipse tranny and with the lancer's bell housing is so no more moey is spent buying/fabbing "custom" axels.
the 4G69's tranny is the same as the lancer's i believe and therefore would not work on the swap.
First, the 4G64 from a 3G eclipse is mated to a F5M42 transmission. The lancer also uses an F5M42 transmission. This means that the tramsmission casing is the same for both, however the bell housing is different to accomidate the different engine family (the bell housing and the transmission casing come apart, but I'm sure you knew that 
). The gear ratios for the 3G 4G64 and the lancer are also the same. This means that the internals of the two transmissions are more than likely identical. The exception to this is the differential. I suspect that the eclipse axles have a larger diameter than the lancer axles (can someone confirm this?). The reason people have in the past swapped the entire internals of the trans was so they could still get thier lancer axles to mate to the differential. However, if the gears inside the trans are identical between the lancer and the eclipse, then swapping the internals of the entire trans is just a bunch of extra work (you could just swap the differential). I have not personally tried any of this, but I intend to this winter.
Second, in case you guys were wondering, according to a Mitsu transmission tech I found on club3G.com, the F5M42 is rated for 175-200 HP (note that the rated limit is not the same as the failure point).
To answer Mirage 2.0's question, it may be possible to just use the ralliart differential. However if the different final ratio is achieved by a differnce in the output shaft gear compared to the differential input gear (as opposed to the pinion gears being different), then to get the lower ratio in the lancer tranny you would need to use the ralliart output shaft with the rest of the lancer internals and the ralliart differential. It should work since the ralliart also uses a F5M42 tranny.
Sorry for the long post.
). The gear ratios for the 3G 4G64 and the lancer are also the same. This means that the internals of the two transmissions are more than likely identical. The exception to this is the differential. I suspect that the eclipse axles have a larger diameter than the lancer axles (can someone confirm this?). The reason people have in the past swapped the entire internals of the trans was so they could still get thier lancer axles to mate to the differential. However, if the gears inside the trans are identical between the lancer and the eclipse, then swapping the internals of the entire trans is just a bunch of extra work (you could just swap the differential). I have not personally tried any of this, but I intend to this winter.Second, in case you guys were wondering, according to a Mitsu transmission tech I found on club3G.com, the F5M42 is rated for 175-200 HP (note that the rated limit is not the same as the failure point).
To answer Mirage 2.0's question, it may be possible to just use the ralliart differential. However if the different final ratio is achieved by a differnce in the output shaft gear compared to the differential input gear (as opposed to the pinion gears being different), then to get the lower ratio in the lancer tranny you would need to use the ralliart output shaft with the rest of the lancer internals and the ralliart differential. It should work since the ralliart also uses a F5M42 tranny.
Sorry for the long post.
First, the 4G64 from a 3G eclipse is mated to a F5M42 transmission. The lancer also uses an F5M42 transmission. This means that the tramsmission casing is the same for both, however the bell housing is different to accomidate the different engine family (the bell housing and the transmission casing come apart, but I'm sure you knew that ). The gear ratios for the 3G 4G64 and the lancer are also the same. This means that the internals of the two transmissions are more than likely identical. The exception to this is the differential. I suspect that the eclipse axles have a larger diameter than the lancer axles (can someone confirm this?). The reason people have in the past swapped the entire internals of the trans was so they could still get thier lancer axles to mate to the differential. However, if the gears inside the trans are identical between the lancer and the eclipse, then swapping the internals of the entire trans is just a bunch of extra work (you could just swap the differential). I have not personally tried any of this, but I intend to this winter.
Second, in case you guys were wondering, according to a Mitsu transmission tech I found on club3G.com, the F5M42 is rated for 175-200 HP (note that the rated limit is not the same as the failure point).
To answer Mirage 2.0's question, it may be possible to just use the ralliart differential. However if the different final ratio is achieved by a differnce in the output shaft gear compared to the differential input gear (as opposed to the pinion gears being different), then to get the lower ratio in the lancer tranny you would need to use the ralliart output shaft with the rest of the lancer internals and the ralliart differential. It should work since the ralliart also uses a F5M42 tranny.
Sorry for the long post.
). The gear ratios for the 3G 4G64 and the lancer are also the same. This means that the internals of the two transmissions are more than likely identical. The exception to this is the differential. I suspect that the eclipse axles have a larger diameter than the lancer axles (can someone confirm this?). The reason people have in the past swapped the entire internals of the trans was so they could still get thier lancer axles to mate to the differential. However, if the gears inside the trans are identical between the lancer and the eclipse, then swapping the internals of the entire trans is just a bunch of extra work (you could just swap the differential). I have not personally tried any of this, but I intend to this winter.Second, in case you guys were wondering, according to a Mitsu transmission tech I found on club3G.com, the F5M42 is rated for 175-200 HP (note that the rated limit is not the same as the failure point).
To answer Mirage 2.0's question, it may be possible to just use the ralliart differential. However if the different final ratio is achieved by a differnce in the output shaft gear compared to the differential input gear (as opposed to the pinion gears being different), then to get the lower ratio in the lancer tranny you would need to use the ralliart output shaft with the rest of the lancer internals and the ralliart differential. It should work since the ralliart also uses a F5M42 tranny.
Sorry for the long post.
The axles for the 4G64 are definitely thicker than the 4G94 axles. I sized up all four axles against each other. The 3G Eclipse has a wider stance and also needs longer axles. I haven't seen the 4G69 axles in person to see how they stack up with the others though. All three cars use the F5M42 tranny with different bellhousings. They all have similar gearing as seen here:
Lancer Ralliart
---------------
1st - 3.583
2nd - 1.947
3rd - 1.379
4th - 1.030
5th - 0.820
Fin - 4.04
F5M42 - Lancer OZ
-----------------
1st - 3.583
2nd - 1.947
3rd - 1.379
4th - 1.030
5th - 0.767
Fin - 3.722
F5M42 - 3G Eclipse 2.4L
-----------------------
1st - 3.455
2nd - 2.056
3rd - 1.370
4th - 1.032
5th - 0.850
Rev - 3.167
Fin - 4.133
Some of the guys on the club3G forums also have their cars pushing 350-400hp with 4G63 heads and turbo setups and claim that "the transmissions can handle it". Others disagree and state as you said that the transmissions are only rated for a little under 200hp.
The internals of the 3 transmissions also share some rails and forks along with the gearing. The differential in the Ralliart trans is the same in the 3G Eclipse trans. As well as the 2G GST, 3G V6 Eclipse and 3000GT FWD. All the same differential. The Lancer differential is the same one as the 2G GSX. Part numbers confirm it.
I'm curious where you got the gear ratio information for the 3G eclipse from. The service manual I have for the 3G eclipse says that the gear ratios match the ones used by the lancer. The 3G V6 eclipse uses a different tranny a F5M51 with different gearing, so I don't think it's a case of just getting them swapped around.
I'm wondering if we are getting the information from different model years. I have heard that the transmissions on 3G eclipses changed in 01 and 08/03, but I haven't seen any information on what changed.
I just checked and my service manual says it covers 2000-2002 eclipse.
I'm wondering if we are getting the information from different model years. I have heard that the transmissions on 3G eclipses changed in 01 and 08/03, but I haven't seen any information on what changed.
I just checked and my service manual says it covers 2000-2002 eclipse.
Last edited by krimson_binome; Jul 18, 2007 at 07:57 AM.
If the lancer diff has the same part number as the 2G GSX, then does that mean that the 2G GSX has the same axle diameter as the lancer? If they were also the same length we could use the aftermarket stronger axles for the 2G AWD.
I'm curious where you got the gear ratio information for the 3G eclipse from. The service manual I have for the 3G eclipse says that the gear ratios match the ones used by the lancer. The 3G V6 eclipse uses a different tranny a F5M51 with different gearing, so I don't think it's a case of just getting them swapped around.
I'm wondering if we are getting the information from different model years. I have heard that the transmissions on 3G eclipses changed in 01 and 08/03, but I haven't seen any information on what changed.
I just checked and my service manual says it covers 2000-2002 eclipse.
I'm wondering if we are getting the information from different model years. I have heard that the transmissions on 3G eclipses changed in 01 and 08/03, but I haven't seen any information on what changed.
I just checked and my service manual says it covers 2000-2002 eclipse.
I would imagine that the inner diameter would match up since they both have identical diffs. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the axles are the same length. It just means that the inners are the same. The shaft length and outer CVs will probably be different.
You'll need the differential, the gear, differential bearings, differential pinion shaft, and the differential spacers. I would suggest getting new bearings and spacers from Mitsu when you do this swap for longevity reasons.