philbert

2002 Lancer ES. Would not start the other morning in -18 temps. Figured it was flooded so replaced the spark plugs. Still no start. Ohmed out the coil packs, one bad, replaced. No start. Have spark (grounded on valve cover) and fuel (cylinders get flooded). Replaced Cam sensor. No start. New battery. Still no start. It turns over just fine, sounds like it wants to catch, but it just won't run. Outside temperature today was 40 so it's not because of the cold. Pulled fuel pump fuse numerous times and cranked to clean out the cylinders. Checked compression and they are all right around 100. FPR is good. It won't start even using starting fluid!

I'm about to replace the ECU, but found out this is a California emissions car (ECU MR578489) and finding one in Minnesota is a not going to happen. I found one from a non-CA car (MR578490), would that work instead?

Any other ideas on why it won't start? I'm at my wits end.

The only thing I can think of at this point is the ECU is sending out a wrong signal and the timing is off, or the spark is not good enough under compression to fire.

CrAnSwIcK

iTrader: (5)

take the upper timing cover off, and make sure the cam is turning...

philbert

If the cam wasn't turning, I wouldn't have compression, nor spark.

CrAnSwIcK

iTrader: (5)

yeah...did I even read that? sorry.

so you have spark, fuel (with good pressure) and compression but no start...doesn't jive...I would say you're on the right track with the ECU...but ECU's generally don't just die, I mean it happens, but it's not really a common issue.

philbert

Yeah, no kidding. Now you know why I'm at my wit's end!

How about swapping in a non-California emissions ECU for the California emissions one in the car presently. Would that work ok?

CrAnSwIcK

iTrader: (5)

not sure...do California cars have more cats and O2 sensors etc.? if it's just mapped differently, it should work fine, if there are extra sensors, it may throw DTC's.


have you looked at car-part.com? some wrecking yards will ship parts, if there isn't anything local...I got a spare ECU for my Ralliart for $100.

how sure are you that the engine is flooding? how did you confirm that fuel is being delivered? is it possible you have bad gas, or water in the fuel system, that may have froze?

did you meter the injectors? 13-16 ohms is the standard. I'm pretty sure I still have spare injectors from my 03 ES, if you find any bad ones...

philbert

I'm sure it's flooding by the condition of my spark plugs. They are almost dripping in gas. I remove the fuel pump fuse and crank it over...pull the plugs, they are sooty, but dry. Clean plugs and put back in or install another set after shooting some ether down the holes. It won't start...it *tries* to start but just won't get over the hump, so to speak. It does the same thing on gas....*tries* but then just floods out and that's it.

It does the same thing when I pull the fuel pump fuse...it *tries* to start and then once all the gas is burnt off it just cranks over.

I'm going to check the VIN and see it this truly is a CA car. The ECU has "89" written in red marker on the metal bracket so maybe it's been replaced in the past.

philbert

Ok, so something has been done with the ECU in the past. There is a Mitsubishi sticker under the hood that says service has been done on the ECU back in 2005.

Is there a way to find out if this is a CA car? Also, not knowing the laws, if a car comes into CA does it have to be modified to fit CA emissions standards, so therefore the ECU was swapped out with a CA one?

Yes, I'm grasping at straws.....

*update*...discovered the ECU programming was updated due to a TSB.

02modlanceroz

iTrader: (2)

I would check the timing belt and make sure you didn't lose some teeth and throw it out of timing. 100 seems really low for a compression test. Most results I have seen are around 150

CrAnSwIcK

iTrader: (5)

yeah..again I failed to read the first post...02mod is right, compression should be much more...standard value is over 200psi, while minimum is 170, with a maximum difference of 14 psi between cylinders according to FSM.

philbert

The compression values are low, for sure. However, they are low because:

1. It was done on a cold engine. 30 degrees, not 200 or so.

2. I did not do WOT.

I figured the readings would be low because of the cold engine, I might as well have them even lower by keeping the throttle closed. Color me weird.....They were all within 10% of each other though, which was important to me. Warm engine and WOT, I should be around 140. Not perfect, but ok on an engine with 200k on it.

Timing belt and components are a year old. Again, the car was fine when parked the evening prior

CrAnSwIcK

iTrader: (5)

should mention that those values are at 200 rpm which you could almost do by hand, but it is during engine cranking (starter motor)...100 still seems low, even for a cold engine...did you try the oil trick?

02modlanceroz

iTrader: (2)

I agree with cranswick. I'd put some oil in each cylinder, check compression with the fuel fuse out. If the numbers are better, put the fuse back in and try to start it.

CrAnSwIcK

iTrader: (5)

you can just disconnect the crank position sensor, and it will prevent both fuel and ignition signals from the ECU. you just have to clear the trouble codes after.

philbert

Car in warm garage, WOT, crank 6 revs, 140 pretty much across the board, dry cylinders (no oil down holes)....just as I thought.

Previous test was down and dirty, just to make sure I had compression. I wasn't so concerned about the numbers (unless it was really low), just wanted them to be ok numbers and similar.