What are you talking about?? The new STi front end was design to be more aerodynamic.

No - it's because Subaru is a small company and doesn't sell many economy cars. CAFE standards are rather complex, IMO, and I don't understand them completely, but it seems MMC has more room to play with on the Evo than Subaru does with the STi because MMC sells a lot of base FWD Lancers to offset the Evo sales. Subaru sells a lot of, well, WRX turbo's which aren't exactly mpg leaders! And in terms of units, MMC sells a *lot* more base Lancers than Subaru sells Impreza's, which further helps MMC.

Reportedly, the mileage on the STi tester wasn't that bad at all, only a few percentages worse than the WRX turbo (less than the power/engine size difference), but engine/weight/mileage factors all combine together to make it very tight. Lighter weight is needed to swing it just on the other side of the line.

GTR, I admittedly am biased towards Subaru and STi - I like what they do with their entire lineup - but I'm not going to lie about data. The Evolution is a great car, but MMC got caught out by STi a bit this time.

However, that isn't the entire story. I'll be the first to admit, and also to point out, that the 4G63 is a better motor than the EJ20 overall. MMC has more R&D into it than Subaru can match, and they have some damn fine engineers. 4G63's are still currently stronger post-modification than the EJ20's, and possibly the 2.5-litre also. MMC also makes better trannies.

What Subaru tends to do better is chassis and suspension setup for the street (not necessarily the track), which is helped by the inherent balance benefits of their drivetrain layout and COG of the low-lying, flat four. And I am biased towards on-the-road driveability. Just note it as the quirks of my writing - I will favor a car that drives well in all situations over a car that excels mainly at the track. If I was writing for track magazines, I would switch that around, but to date, I'm not. I just drove a 370hp STi that's been set up for circuit track driving, and I panned it's streetability also. I think the quote was "The bumpy stuff, which is rarer in Japan than most other areas, will leave your man-**** sore from the bouncing. If your significant other is endowed enough to cast a shadow, then you will be contributing towards her premature sag!".

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

I'll keep this in mind in case for after I may get married and may need to buy a new car.

How do you define "better"? More reliable? Able to handle more HP? Is not fair to compare the EVO engine to WRX engine, the STi motor used semi closed deck design which is more reliable and able to hold more HP. I mean they are both great motors but we don't know how the U.S EVO and the U.S STi perform yet, so we will just sit and wait.

Well we do know that the US Evo's engine is the same as what's available in Japan, except for the slight detuning to pass emmissions. For the US STi it's a whole "new" engine that's not been available in any other market.

Paul was talking about the current experience about the 4G63 and the EJ20 engines. He never mentioned the EJ25s abilities, which we are waiting for here in the States. But 4G63 is well known performer and it is hard to say anything bad about that. Also, since EJ25 is a relatively new, it will take a bit of time till people get all of the goodies for that one as well.

Fedja

Better, Yes! Great No! I think 146mph top speed for 2.0L Twin scroll STi. It runs 12.99 so i'm assuming 25+ more hp than our 2.5L?

Paul, I guess this is the first time that I have realized that you know the pro's and cons for both cars. Before this redesigned 2.5L / 2.0L twin scroll STi i felt was and will be the better performer due to the pro's and con's between Boxter vs Inline, FMIC vs TMIC. Now Subaru took everyones off guard with DCCD and Twin scroll or 2.5L and improved mainfold/headers and strong 6-speed. I feel Subaru was always the underdog and now possibility "better" than the evo. It's just facts and figures right now and only time will tell. Stock for stock Sti probably will out perform the evo but to tell you the truth if Subaru given us the EJ20 with all the goodies like the JDM my decision could be different. But the reputation on evo's superiour handling on tarmac has played a large role in my decision.


Do anybody know the CD's for MY04STi and evo8?

About 10 more hp - the GDB STi was at 291hp/270ft/lb's of torque on independent dyno's, the new JDM STi is probably right around 310hp/285ft/lb's. Where it picked up some time is in the overall power band, I'd wager, vs. past STi's such as the GDB. The S202 I drove that had an accurate 320ps didn't have the low-to-mid range that the new STi has, but it certainly did have a bit more at the top end, which is where peak hp is measured.

As far as top speed goes - well, the older, less aero-friendly GC8 STi would hit 150mph+. Both the STi and the Evo are basically rev-limited to top speed, not drag-limited.

And the 4G63 is a stronger motor than the EJ20 series so far - I don't know for sure about the latest EJ20, it is a all-new block - but every tuner worth his salt that has worked on both motors will tell you they can get more out of the 4G63 motors. It's usually a bit cheaper, also - until this last EJ20 motor, there were several bits that really needed to be optimized for performance. The popularity of the STi points towards the fact that this only affects the small percentage of car owners that actually go past 350hp in tuning. Having driven 350+hp lightweight cars like the Evo and STi, that's easy to understand - not many people can actually drive them on the street easily. 320-340hp in a 3000lb car is usually enough for even the moderate hardcore.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

Cheers,

Paul Hansen

The STi 7 (bug eye) version actually have a 0.33Cc aerodynamic drag, which was improve from the older Impreza. I know the new STi have even lower drag #, but don't I know the exact # on it and the drag # on EVO.

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I know the U.S. WRX is lighter than the Evo 8, but only by 135 pounds. That is not much. That is not even the weight of an average person. I don't know where people get 3085 lbs. for the WRX. I have the old Road and Track from 2 yrs.ago and they have 3130 for the WRX. Besides that is what weight saving mods are four. My 1991 Eclipse GSX probably weighed close to 3500 lbs. and less power and torque, so I am happy with the weight of the Evo, especially since it has more room than my Eclipse. Not to mention the 4 doors on the Evo.

One comment on spec C. Only spec c we'll get is the rear windshield, wheels, added dccd, and no radio

-17" spec C model has no variable diff
-No undercoating "impossible for the U.S. with rust thru warrentee".
-No Air conditioning
-No Passenger's sun visor
-Thinner gauage roof panel (probably wound pass roll over test)
-Thinner trunk lid (possible)

Yes it does. DCCD is standard on JDM Spec-C and optional on STi.

Thought it was only standrad on 16"ers.

It used to be that way, but for the STi 8, DCCD-a is standard on the Type-C and optional on the standard STi.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen