Notices
The Loft / EvoM Car Talk Corner The landing pad for automotive discussions, news, articles, and opinions. A place for the community to kick back and chat.

So you thought you knew about chassis design?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Feb 19, 2008 | 06:58 PM
  #1  
spt's Avatar
spt
Thread Starter
Evolved Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
From: CA & MD
So you thought you knew about chassis design?



A pretty interesting s2000 build:

After watching GT5 guru Kazunori Yamauchi talk about his incredible S2000 - built by Opera Performance....

http://onlinetating.com/?p=15
Reply
Old Feb 20, 2008 | 08:53 AM
  #2  
SuperHatch's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (23)
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,044
Likes: 0
From: NJ
I remember reading about this in SCC back when the magazine was worth more than it's weight in toilet paper. Nice find, it's very impressive to see all of those detail pics.
Reply
Old Feb 20, 2008 | 04:51 PM
  #3  
Fishey's Avatar
Newbie
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: Lebanon, Ohio
Absolutely the worst build I have ever seen on a car ever. The person who did all that work should be fired. Why? well if the person who actually was building it knew about chassis design he would know that you can't spot weld everything the way they did its not a very safe practice and someone is going to end up in a body bag. The welds used are too cold and don't get root penetration of the metal. This means that the frame is very weak at every single weld and I am sure there is a ton of IF (incomplete fusion) throughout the chassis.

Proper Frame Technique (or similar style)


Also, regardless the way they did the doors was pretty dumb if you ask me regardless of how bad they are at knowing how to build a car.

Last edited by Fishey; Feb 20, 2008 at 05:03 PM.
Reply
Old Feb 20, 2008 | 06:41 PM
  #4  
RuckerPark's Avatar
Evolving Member
iTrader: (66)
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 467
Likes: 0
From: California
Originally Posted by Fishey
Absolutely the worst build I have ever seen on a car ever. The person who did all that work should be fired. Why? well if the person who actually was building it knew about chassis design he would know that you can't spot weld everything the way they did its not a very safe practice and someone is going to end up in a body bag. The welds used are too cold and don't get root penetration of the metal. This means that the frame is very weak at every single weld and I am sure there is a ton of IF (incomplete fusion) throughout the chassis.

Proper Frame Technique (or similar style)


Also, regardless the way they did the doors was pretty dumb if you ask me regardless of how bad they are at knowing how to build a car.
lets see yours

Reply
Old Feb 20, 2008 | 10:54 PM
  #5  
Fishey's Avatar
Newbie
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: Lebanon, Ohio
Ugh?
Reply
Old Feb 21, 2008 | 07:32 AM
  #6  
TruBluIX's Avatar
Newbie
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
From: Alexandria, VA
Opera performance is world renowned for their car builds. That is what stitch welding should look like. This car will kill on a track. Featherweight with strength in all the right places.
Reply
Old Feb 21, 2008 | 10:37 AM
  #7  
Fishey's Avatar
Newbie
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: Lebanon, Ohio
Originally Posted by TruBluIX
Opera performance is world renowned for their car builds. That is what stitch welding should look like. This car will kill on a track. Featherweight with strength in all the right places.
Does not matter who they are thats horrible execution of a stitch weld but if you look at it its not just a seem weld but some areas have been removed then welded back in with tacks.... Honestly, if you think thats good work you need to learn something about safety, flex and racing.
Reply
Old Feb 21, 2008 | 03:55 PM
  #8  
TruBluIX's Avatar
Newbie
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
From: Alexandria, VA
Originally Posted by Fishey
Does not matter who they are thats horrible execution of a stitch weld but if you look at it its not just a seem weld but some areas have been removed then welded back in with tacks.... Honestly, if you think thats good work you need to learn something about safety, flex and racing.
Maybe you should build up a muti-million dollar company off of your amazing talents in chassis building and frame strengthening. Opera perfomance has been building cars for a long time. I would imagine they would have gone out of business by now if they had poor build quality.

I'll have you work on my car next time I want to add a hundred + pounds of welds so my car will need 80+ more hp to go around a track as fast as a stock car.

Actually, I think we need to install a solid iron bar roll cage too while I have everything out of the car. That way I am sure to keep the car on the ground at speed.
Reply
Old Feb 21, 2008 | 03:59 PM
  #9  
TruBluIX's Avatar
Newbie
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
From: Alexandria, VA

You're Right....

That doesn't look very ridgid at all....
Reply
Old Feb 21, 2008 | 05:37 PM
  #10  
WestSideBilly's Avatar
El Jefe
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,965
Likes: 84
From: Asleep at the wheel
Looking through the pictures, the welding strikes me as good, maybe not great, but certainly passable for a track car. The tack welds are mostly in low stress areas, or in later pictures have been properly stitched. The bulk of the welding looks to be pretty thorough. Punching out the holes in the door is a time consuming way of doing it, but it keeps the general shape and structure of the original part. They won't survive an impact, but that's what the roll cage is for.

Reply
Old Feb 22, 2008 | 02:09 AM
  #11  
Fishey's Avatar
Newbie
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: Lebanon, Ohio
Originally Posted by TruBluIX
Maybe you should build up a muti-million dollar company off of your amazing talents in chassis building and frame strengthening. Opera perfomance has been building cars for a long time. I would imagine they would have gone out of business by now if they had poor build quality.

I'll have you work on my car next time I want to add a hundred + pounds of welds so my car will need 80+ more hp to go around a track as fast as a stock car.

Actually, I think we need to install a solid iron bar roll cage too while I have everything out of the car. That way I am sure to keep the car on the ground at speed.
You do know most of what was welded was just "Stitch welding" right? The pictures I posted are from a very good rally program here in the U.S. Regardless, the parts that have me concerned are the parts that are welded in like the front braces around the wheel well. You should spend some time learning about welding as well just because someone does something that is well known doesn't make it right. The welds they placed on most of the frame are pretty worthless. I really don't understand the doors because from what I understand about S2000 frames they don't have any structural importance.



I like the doors on this particular car for racing better but maybe there was a reason for keeping the inner parts of the door.
Reply
Old Feb 22, 2008 | 02:48 AM
  #12  
EvoRecordSetter's Avatar
Evolved Member
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,123
Likes: 0
From: Seattle
Originally Posted by TruBluIX
Maybe you should build up a muti-million dollar company off of your amazing talents in chassis building and frame strengthening. Opera perfomance has been building cars for a long time. I would imagine they would have gone out of business by now if they had poor build quality.

this guy has no idea what hes talking just another guy sucking up. they have lots of money so they MUST KNOW WHATS GOOD.



Originally Posted by Fishey
You do know most of what was welded was just "Stitch welding" right? The pictures I posted are from a very good rally program here in the U.S. Regardless, the parts that have me concerned are the parts that are welded in like the front braces around the wheel well. You should spend some time learning about welding as well just because someone does something that is well known doesn't make it right. The welds they placed on most of the frame are pretty worthless. I really don't understand the doors because from what I understand about S2000 frames they don't have any structural importance.



I like the doors on this particular car for racing better but maybe there was a reason for keeping the inner parts of the door.

i like that door also. i see what your talking about these people have no experience with actually building cars thats why they are attacking you. they figure since that company is well known that they "HaVE" to know what they are talking about.

its nice when people look beyond the box and actually think for themselfs.
Reply
Old Feb 22, 2008 | 02:50 AM
  #13  
EvoRecordSetter's Avatar
Evolved Member
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,123
Likes: 0
From: Seattle
BTW, my jaw still dropped when i saw the build and what they did to the s2000, and boy would i love to have it. but i want it for the wrong reasons. i would be the guy bringing it to the track telling everyone how its stock, and whooping everyones butt!

"GO AHEAD LOOK AT IT, see its stock" but little do they know it would be only 1400lbs(guesstimate i dont know how much it weighs), not 2800(stockish). lol
Reply
Old Feb 22, 2008 | 05:51 AM
  #14  
SuperHatch's Avatar
Evolved Member
iTrader: (23)
 
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,044
Likes: 0
From: NJ
Originally Posted by Fishey
You do know most of what was welded was just "Stitch welding" right? The pictures I posted are from a very good rally program here in the U.S. Regardless, the parts that have me concerned are the parts that are welded in like the front braces around the wheel well. You should spend some time learning about welding as well just because someone does something that is well known doesn't make it right. The welds they placed on most of the frame are pretty worthless. I really don't understand the doors because from what I understand about S2000 frames they don't have any structural importance.



I like the doors on this particular car for racing better but maybe there was a reason for keeping the inner parts of the door.
Pretty sure they kept the inside part of the frame so they could hang the door panels/window motors/etc., but that's just a guess...

I'm also not defending the work since I have no reason to, but it is 100% impossible to accurately judge the strength of a weld by looking at it.
Reply
Old Feb 22, 2008 | 06:08 AM
  #15  
EvoRecordSetter's Avatar
Evolved Member
 
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,123
Likes: 0
From: Seattle
well i did some research and it seems that this was all done the way its done to make it lighter and in fact STRONGER.

http://forums2.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?p=1537747

heres a qoute

the car weighs around ~2000lbs. signficantly stiffer than the factory body.

all structural pieces that had circles cut in it, aren't flimsy. the circles drilled were chamfered (sp?). I may not be describing it properly but push the edges of the circles out. So it looks embossed. Doing that help keep the ridgidty, but keep the weight off as well.
the non essential body panels were drilled to save weight and not chamfered.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
MODDICTION
EvoX 'For Sale' External Engine / Power
75
Nov 13, 2017 08:04 AM
MODDICTION
Evo 'For Sale' External Engine / Power
129
Nov 13, 2017 08:02 AM
WynnS123
For Sale - Cars For Sale
102
Apr 16, 2008 08:43 PM
dipper
The Loft / EvoM Car Talk Corner
14
Mar 14, 2002 02:34 AM




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:41 AM.