2014 Ford Fiesta ST project
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 14,094
Likes: 1,092
From: Mid-Hudson, NY
Well, I almost killed myself and the car Friday at Thunderhill. Second lap into the second session, at 110 mph in the front straight into the braking zone I lost all brakes and had a serious OHHHH FUUUUUU moment.
Lesson learned, Wilwood BP-20's have no business being on a car that is on track. They melted and smeared all over the rotors.
Pedal going to the floor at the end of the front straight....
Man that seriously sucked.
I guess after six years away from the track I also forgot about not running street pads on the track, even if they are "aggressive" street pads. They ended up basically melting and smearing onto the rotor:
After that dumb *** move, I put in a set of BP-30's, which are race pads and the brakes seemed pretty rock solid. However that incident left me a bit spooked for the rest of the day.
I have to say, driving a short wheel base FWD car on track is a hell of a lot harder than a AWD Sedan. It's going to take me a good while to get used to this thing.
A couple things I was trying to get confidence in is that while the car had great turn in, almost Evo like, once it turned in, it never really set and felt solid like the turn in would suggest. This didn't give me much confidence and I guess I just need to get used to it. The Evo was so stable and confidence inspiring compared, but I have to keep reminding myself, this ain't an Evo.
Obligatory paddock photo:
Was pretty happy I could fit most stuff in the back without having to put the seats down:
This is a datalog of temps of my last session of the day in the afternoon. About four full laps of a 2.8 mile course. It was about 95* ambient at the time. The hottest session.
My selection is over the peak numbers for the datalog while on track.
Couple things to note:
1. Correlation between Charge Temp and Coolant temp, the plots almost mirror each other. We really need a upgraded radiator option!
2. Intake temp. How rock steady is that ****? Stock intake down to the paper filter. Guess it works well.
3. Zero knock except a single 1 blip. Guess my track tune is working.
4. Oil temps. Getting toasty.
More track data!
One thing this will show is that I was driving the car at about maybe 70% and I'm sure all the guys I was pointing by can attest to that. It was more of a test and tune day for me since I hadn't been to the track in six years and this is a totally different platform for me.
Some of the things I learned was that I have a ton of cobwebs to get out and these little short wheel base FWD cars are hard to drive on track, at least compared to what I am used to!
Btw, an old Evo friend of mine was with me at the track in his Focus ST with cobb stage 1 map. I would easily pull on him in the fast parts of the track based on pure acceleration. Was interesting to see that.
This is my last lap of the day with Lateral G-Force and MPH. Very cool data!
Peak lateral G of .99 in this data set. Like I said I was driving at probably 70% so I think it easily has over 1.0 G in it. I believe a stock FiST has been tested at .92? It also has more mph in at at the end of the front straight, I let off a bit as you can see here. I know when I looked at it right before my braking incident I was at 110 mph but of course my eye to brain connection can be off. If I remember correctly (It's been a long time) my Evo 8 would hit about 125-130 or so in the same place.
Purple is MPH
White is Lateral G, positive is right turns and negative is left turns.
Lesson learned, Wilwood BP-20's have no business being on a car that is on track. They melted and smeared all over the rotors.
Pedal going to the floor at the end of the front straight....
Man that seriously sucked.
I guess after six years away from the track I also forgot about not running street pads on the track, even if they are "aggressive" street pads. They ended up basically melting and smearing onto the rotor:
After that dumb *** move, I put in a set of BP-30's, which are race pads and the brakes seemed pretty rock solid. However that incident left me a bit spooked for the rest of the day.
I have to say, driving a short wheel base FWD car on track is a hell of a lot harder than a AWD Sedan. It's going to take me a good while to get used to this thing.
A couple things I was trying to get confidence in is that while the car had great turn in, almost Evo like, once it turned in, it never really set and felt solid like the turn in would suggest. This didn't give me much confidence and I guess I just need to get used to it. The Evo was so stable and confidence inspiring compared, but I have to keep reminding myself, this ain't an Evo.
Obligatory paddock photo:
Was pretty happy I could fit most stuff in the back without having to put the seats down:
This is a datalog of temps of my last session of the day in the afternoon. About four full laps of a 2.8 mile course. It was about 95* ambient at the time. The hottest session.
My selection is over the peak numbers for the datalog while on track.
Couple things to note:
1. Correlation between Charge Temp and Coolant temp, the plots almost mirror each other. We really need a upgraded radiator option!
2. Intake temp. How rock steady is that ****? Stock intake down to the paper filter. Guess it works well.
3. Zero knock except a single 1 blip. Guess my track tune is working.
4. Oil temps. Getting toasty.
More track data!
One thing this will show is that I was driving the car at about maybe 70% and I'm sure all the guys I was pointing by can attest to that.
It was more of a test and tune day for me since I hadn't been to the track in six years and this is a totally different platform for me.Some of the things I learned was that I have a ton of cobwebs to get out and these little short wheel base FWD cars are hard to drive on track, at least compared to what I am used to!
Btw, an old Evo friend of mine was with me at the track in his Focus ST with cobb stage 1 map. I would easily pull on him in the fast parts of the track based on pure acceleration. Was interesting to see that.
This is my last lap of the day with Lateral G-Force and MPH. Very cool data!
Peak lateral G of .99 in this data set. Like I said I was driving at probably 70% so I think it easily has over 1.0 G in it. I believe a stock FiST has been tested at .92? It also has more mph in at at the end of the front straight, I let off a bit as you can see here. I know when I looked at it right before my braking incident I was at 110 mph but of course my eye to brain connection can be off.
If I remember correctly (It's been a long time) my Evo 8 would hit about 125-130 or so in the same place.Purple is MPH
White is Lateral G, positive is right turns and negative is left turns.
Last edited by razorlab; Sep 21, 2014 at 05:49 PM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 14,094
Likes: 1,092
From: Mid-Hudson, NY
I'm working on adding a flex fuel sensor to the Fiesta ST since I'm only running E30-E45 so I'm mixing at the pump and I thought it would nice to know exactly the mix I have in the car so I don't have to rely on just math and guessing.
COBB just released a big software update to the Ford platform with up to 5 switchable on the fly maps that will also GREATLY help in this regard. I can put different maps into the car, each with 91 oct, E30, E40, E45 etc and switch on the fly depending on what the Flex Fuel sensor tells me. I'm hoping to get COBB on board to try and implement auto switching based on ethanol content but that will take them helping me and also wiring the sensor output to the ECU. That is a long-term goal.
For now I'm test fitting all the fittings to the sensor and wiring. I think I might have to add a 90* fitting and possibly a hose line. I was hoping to not have to make it more complicated but might have to depending on space and location in the engine bay. We'll see when I do some test fitting this weekend.
COBB just released a big software update to the Ford platform with up to 5 switchable on the fly maps that will also GREATLY help in this regard. I can put different maps into the car, each with 91 oct, E30, E40, E45 etc and switch on the fly depending on what the Flex Fuel sensor tells me. I'm hoping to get COBB on board to try and implement auto switching based on ethanol content but that will take them helping me and also wiring the sensor output to the ECU. That is a long-term goal.
For now I'm test fitting all the fittings to the sensor and wiring. I think I might have to add a 90* fitting and possibly a hose line. I was hoping to not have to make it more complicated but might have to depending on space and location in the engine bay. We'll see when I do some test fitting this weekend.
Yikes, I guess that was the right of passage for that car into track duty. Nice data and track tune with no knock. Nice proposed setup for flex fuel. Never got to that point in the evo, but its always interested me because e85 is not near my home to rely on it 100%.
http://www.xtrac.com/sectors/motorsport/rally-offroad/product/98
Figure outout how to add this
Do wish we could get this package Awd ...
Figure outout how to add this
Do wish we could get this package Awd ...
Last edited by 211Ratsbud; Oct 13, 2014 at 07:15 AM.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 14,094
Likes: 1,092
From: Mid-Hudson, NY
Another track day under my belt in the FiST.
Weather was amazing this time around. Mid 60F as the high, 50's in the morning. Sunny. What a difference from the 98F day last time.
Slowly getting my track legs back and getting used to the car. I went six seconds faster this time around, getting there, slowly but surely. Still 22 seconds off my best time in my Evo 8 at this track.
The car still has a good amount left in it but I'm taking it slow as I still have six years of track cobwebs to clean out. Tried a couple different ways to drive the car this time with different success. I can tell once I get fully comfortable with car I will want to loosen up the chassis. Right now it's pretty darn stable but I can tell it will be faster with the chassis set up looser.
Now that I'm going faster in it I can predict a LSD could be in my future if I keep tracking the car. It would do some really weird hopping stuff in hard third gear corners on power and I would even get some wheel spin in 4th on track out in some places. That and not being able to put power down in off camber corners started to get a little frustrating, especially coming from tracking an AWD Evo.
I also think I need to get an exhaust of some sort as the car is way too quiet on track with a helmet on, hard to judge the RPM.
I used the GoPro for the first time this event too. You can see from my video I didn't mount it in a great spot to see all the track. You get to see my mug though. I will try another angle next time. Scroll down to the end of this post for the video if you are interested.
Now, more data!
First, some engine data logs. Here is an overlay of a session from this event with an overlay of a session from last event. It's fairly obvious it was a much cooler day by the charge temps. Huge difference! The interesting data to note is that coolant and oil temps show a much less difference. They are obviously cooler this time but not by much!
Blue plots are from last event in 98F weather
Red plots are from this event in 65F weather
Next up is G-force. One lap. Lateral and Lineal. You can tell pretty quickly from looking at this overlay that I was much quicker this time and that is shown in the offset. Also note higher Lateral G's of 1.02 max compared to .99 before.
Left and right Lateral G's are shown as positive/negative.
Accel and Decel Lineal G's are shown as positive/negative. Note much harder braking this time.
Blue plots are from last event
Red plots are from this event
Here is the video. Unedited. One session. As noted camera position sucks and the car is way too quiet. First lap is my warm up lap so you can forward to the start of the second if you wish.
Weather was amazing this time around. Mid 60F as the high, 50's in the morning. Sunny. What a difference from the 98F day last time.
Slowly getting my track legs back and getting used to the car. I went six seconds faster this time around, getting there, slowly but surely. Still 22 seconds off my best time in my Evo 8 at this track.
The car still has a good amount left in it but I'm taking it slow as I still have six years of track cobwebs to clean out. Tried a couple different ways to drive the car this time with different success. I can tell once I get fully comfortable with car I will want to loosen up the chassis. Right now it's pretty darn stable but I can tell it will be faster with the chassis set up looser.
Now that I'm going faster in it I can predict a LSD could be in my future if I keep tracking the car. It would do some really weird hopping stuff in hard third gear corners on power and I would even get some wheel spin in 4th on track out in some places. That and not being able to put power down in off camber corners started to get a little frustrating, especially coming from tracking an AWD Evo.
I also think I need to get an exhaust of some sort as the car is way too quiet on track with a helmet on, hard to judge the RPM.
I used the GoPro for the first time this event too. You can see from my video I didn't mount it in a great spot to see all the track. You get to see my mug though.
I will try another angle next time. Scroll down to the end of this post for the video if you are interested.Now, more data!
First, some engine data logs. Here is an overlay of a session from this event with an overlay of a session from last event. It's fairly obvious it was a much cooler day by the charge temps. Huge difference! The interesting data to note is that coolant and oil temps show a much less difference. They are obviously cooler this time but not by much!
Blue plots are from last event in 98F weather
Red plots are from this event in 65F weather
Next up is G-force. One lap. Lateral and Lineal. You can tell pretty quickly from looking at this overlay that I was much quicker this time and that is shown in the offset. Also note higher Lateral G's of 1.02 max compared to .99 before.
Left and right Lateral G's are shown as positive/negative.
Accel and Decel Lineal G's are shown as positive/negative. Note much harder braking this time.
Blue plots are from last event
Red plots are from this event
Here is the video. Unedited. One session. As noted camera position sucks and the car is way too quiet. First lap is my warm up lap so you can forward to the start of the second if you wish.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 14,094
Likes: 1,092
From: Mid-Hudson, NY
Now that my current track tune has been tested on track and it's pretty much solid, I'm starting to revisit my street tune.
I'm concentrating more on low and mid range tuning right now but I'm starting to think the general lack of flow mods on the car is starting to show.
Great gains so far low and mid range though, looks all nice and choked up top though... time for a downpipe?
Obviously most of this is the laughable stock turbo but it does make me wonder what opening up some flow could do.
Mods:
E40 fuel
Airtec FMIC
Custom tuning via Cobb ATR by me
Compared to my last E45 street tune, you can see after 4500 rpm or so it's not so flow happy.
I'm concentrating more on low and mid range tuning right now but I'm starting to think the general lack of flow mods on the car is starting to show.
Great gains so far low and mid range though, looks all nice and choked up top though... time for a downpipe?
Obviously most of this is the laughable stock turbo but it does make me wonder what opening up some flow could do.
Mods:
E40 fuel
Airtec FMIC
Custom tuning via Cobb ATR by me
Compared to my last E45 street tune, you can see after 4500 rpm or so it's not so flow happy.
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 14,094
Likes: 1,092
From: Mid-Hudson, NY
ATP has Garret bolt ons. I'm pretty set on the GT2560R (32lb/min) option as I feel it's a good size for the 1.6L and I'm just looking for another 50-70whp, mainly to fill in that whole right side of the power curve.
I was going to pick one up last month but I decided to do a couple track events to learn the car first. Might be a dec-feb project.
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...egory_Code=FIE
I was going to pick one up last month but I decided to do a couple track events to learn the car first. Might be a dec-feb project.
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant...egory_Code=FIE
Bryan, I have looked at some of the posts and stuff on the fiST forums... those guys are retarded for the most part...
I have been thinking about perhaps picking up one of these after I get back from deployment as they are relatively inexpensive and they seem to be a fun car...
How hard is the ECU to learn? It seems pretty detailed and complex from what I have read...
I have been thinking about perhaps picking up one of these after I get back from deployment as they are relatively inexpensive and they seem to be a fun car...
How hard is the ECU to learn? It seems pretty detailed and complex from what I have read...