Yeah, seriously. It was just my first time and two of us were only on their 2nd event, yet I am pretty sure we would have been "intimidating" her through turns 5-9 as well, so perhaps she should stick to HPDE 1, unless all of us should move up to 2 and 3, respectively.

We did get warned for buddy racing and being too aggressive, but that was moreso caused by the gap in speed/handling than our relative experience, since we had none for the most part...

 

I was told to give people more room as well. I was actually quite surprised by the number of people in group 2 that looked like they were on the track for the 1st time in their life. I am not talking about those driving slow or being in a slower car, but there were people there not knowing the basics. Stuff that you learn in group 1, like learning when to brake (or when NOT to), staying on line and not weaving left and right etc..

Ian's response that a person is in group 2 b/c they have been on the track 5 or 6 time is simply retarded.

Agreed. I would much rather be the slowest guy on the track, but driving at MY speed than be stuck in heavy traffic. I paid $ to learn something after all. Fortunately, my instructor told me to sign up for group 3 next time.

These are 17x9 with 245 Hoosiers on (which is more like 265). Same size front and rear.

 

Well, he claimed to have nearly 20 years of experience...


Oh, and I forgot to mention, Dan Hurwitz is a pretty good driver. He was knocking down lap times in the range of 1:28 to 1:29 with my fat *** in the car... on stock brake pads. His Evo isn't heavily modded either.

 

is group 2 not allowed to pass anywhere but between 9-10, 10-1 and 2-3? if so, it doesn't make any sense to run on someone's bumper 5-9 other than to be a dick. It is a ego booster, but....... just get behind them at 9 and take the point by. if someone was jerking all over your bumper for 4 turns you may start to wonder if i was going to hit you, etc......

not sure what level all of you guys have, but your instructor would / should suggest when you move up..... just because you can drive a faster car faster than someone elses slower car doesn't mean they are bad....... I would think anyone who catches on at all would be in HPDE3 within about 5 track visits?

Ian has been around forever.

that blue evo with the little wing looked goofy.

 

--Dan
Mach V
MachEVO.com

 

So Scot, you're telling me group 2 is a place to languish, learn the virutes of patience and how to deal with over crowded run groups? because based on Ian's feedback that's part of the message I received.

Really, it's not an ego thing for me. I'm not there to be a dick and alienate anyone any further than I already do just by showing up with an Evo. I'll gladly hang back and wait for the point by at 9. Depsite the poor reference I made to Wojo's picture, I was not riding this girl's ***. In fact I was leaving more than 2 to 3 car lengths between myself and her bumper. Only as I entered turn 9 did I begin to pressure her anticipating the pass signal.

Am I impatient and aggressive behind the wheel? Yes I am. That's why I take myself and my car to the track. I have no illusions what so ever that I'm the next Michael Shumacher. I could have easily placed myself in group 3. I chose group 2 because I hadn't driven the track in a year nor the car in 10 months and I WANTED an instructor with me. I'm there to learn, push the envelope of my skill set, gain consistancy and learn the limits of my car. All of these things are difficult to do when you get pinned behind the next Danica Patrick who forces you to reduce your intensity level from 8/10ths to 4/10ths. If they're weaving, meandering and groping to find the line when there is the mere presence of traffic with a loud exhaust two car lengths behind them then I suggest they aren't ready for the run group. When encountering those situations I follow the intructions that were provided to me which is to apply pressure at the passing zones (praying that the driver in front will signal) and if the train situation gets too bad, pit in and allow traffic to get ahead.

If Ian has been around for so long then perhaps he's lost his ability to look objectively at the situation and see it from the perspective of folks who are new to the organization and that aren't paying him for instruction. He certainly refused to listen to my perspective on the situation. Instead I was politely made out to be a noob ***** with a fast car that should just chill out before I wrecked like those other guys.

As I said to Ian, I believe that NASA is mismanaging the HDPE run groups. They are too crowded to allow the huge disparity in skill sets and vehicle perfomance, particularly in group 2. They need to manage this situation by setting expectations in the classroom rather than spending an inordinate amount of time talking about the Hans device. They also need to work on delivering a consistant message through their instructors.

 

Hey aren't you selling your EVO for a Mustang or something?

 

Steve,

I think you can have an instructor in HPDE3 (just ask for one)..... you get the best of all worlds..... you can pass anywhere with a point by (i think) and you are running with more experienced people, faster lap times, etc....maybe even less cars on the track too?

This stuff has become so popular these days..... I didn't see how many cars were out there but I am sure it is overbooked.... I guess for NASA it is hard to turn away $$$$....maybe Pit next time then go right back out in a clean spot.?

Unfort you will find a huge difference in instructors at any event.... some instructors are racers, some haven't pushed their cars pasted 5/10's....... i think they give those instructor shirts to any warm body who has a familiar face.

The fact that you have a buttload of power doesn't help your situation being in group 2.

Try a FATT...unfort you will run into the same ****. You need to go to a "seat time" to actually be able to enjoy yourself..... you need signed off by 2 instructors to do Seat time.

Scot

 

"Newbie"

What the hell is a 6ghatch anyway?


i wanna ride the pony.

 

Do what Scot said, sign up for group 3 (assuming your instructor signs off on it) and ask for an instructor in group 3 (or ask for permission to have a racer who's not busy ride with you).....generally the drivers are faster, there are more passing areas and less trains.........the reality can be that if you are quick and your car is fast enough, you will get behind people in any group who hold you up.....

remember the school groups are classed on driver's experience, not car speed????

ps. those evos did look good out there ;-)

pss. i too was not a huge fan of the ralliart wing on the blue evo,

your car had more nose dive going into 5 than the other evos, so you were either carrying more speed through the chute than the other evos, or your suspension is stock and there's aren't

 

I think run group two was booked with 33 particpants. That probably works on a larger track like VIR where you can space out the participants and you've got some more technical sections to slow traffic down. In my opinion it didn't work at Summit. Maybe it could work but like I said they need to more carefully manage the traffic. Overall it was a good weekend but the conversation with Ian was frustrating.

Like you suggested last year, perhaps I just need to go legit and buy a "real race car", especially if competition is where I feel like I'm ultimately headed. It will be much cheaper in the long run, epecially since there's no reasonably competitive class for the Evo.

 

The low wing was actually "standard" equipment on the '03s. I specifically sought one out to be lower profile. I agree that it looks out of place but I think it's helped keep my nine year ticket free streak going.

My car currently has a stock suspension so it definately dives hard, especially coming into 5 where I was full throttle from the apex of turn 4 to a very late braking point.

 

Hey Steve, HPDE 1 was even worse! We were lining up first just to get 2 clean laps without traffic, then would hit a huge train. I would then try to pit, but even when they'd try to give me a clean spot, I would come up on someone right away. We kept talking about moving up to HPDE2, but from what I saw, you almost never got a clean lap. We were specifically watching for you to get some clean straightaways, but most of the time, you were having to weave in and out passing 3-4 cars each time. Were you guys able to pass between 2 and 3 on day 1? We weren't allowed to do that until Day 2, and sometimes people wouldn't give us the pass signal at 9 and 10, which meant I would go 2 full laps at half throttle in 6th gear while steering with one finger. That was very annoying, but I was lucky to have a good instructor. He owned the red 360 modena, was apparently a very good driver with lots of experience, was a fellow Marine (retired), and thought my car was twin turbo, since it was so powerful and had no turbo lag (haha). Even though we all got warned for being overly aggressive (too fast for the noobs in HPDE1), he never reprimanded me for anything, because he knew I wasn't overstepping my bounds, passing illegally, or being dangerous.

I would try to do HPDE2 next time, but it sounds like you definitely need to be in 3, if you're allowed.

 

Having been to maybe two dozen track events in all different classes, I can tell you that complaints about trains and passing problems are endemic to the lower groups. There's just no realistic way to class people by both speed of car and skill of driver. If you lumped all the Evo guys together, you'd have beginners in Evos driving in the same run group as experienced people. If you lump all the beginners together, you have beginners driving Evos next to beginners driving Hyundais. You can't win.

One thing that I think helps is to talk frankly with your fellow drivers in the classroom or group meetings. "Hi, I have a 400 hp Evo, and I'm liable to be on your ***. It's loud. I apologize in advance. Don't be frightened."

But passing definitely requires some ***-riding. If you're too far back when the opportunity comes, you may have to wait another half-lap for your chance. I've even had instructors say, "Get on him, because we're going to pass on this next straight. Make sure you're in his mirrors." This isn't rude or aggressive in my book; it's just how it is, especially when you have a less-experienced driver who might not notice you if you don't fill all the rearview.

One thing we can try to do next year is get more Mach V customers to the event! If we fill it up with Evo and STi's, we'll definitely have less of a problem with huge car power dispariites (Propellerhead's car notwithstanding).

*Blush!* Gosh, thanks.

--Dan
Mach V
FastWRX.com

 

hey.... I missed this post...........

i missed ya in the pits... i didn't think the SER's were that fast. Nice driving!

I saw the white SER off in that corner all banged up....... tough weekend on cars!!!

did you see that $150k+++ viper running 1:21's on freaking full slicks!!! doh!!!! he should be in the 1:14 range i think.