hey guys, from your experience as active participants in motor sports, what would you suggest joining - SCCA or NASA? I know a lot of people from this part are NASA in California. I am just wondering what class I would be in and what is a better choice for me. I want to polish my skills and learn. Basically I want to feel that people I am sharing the track with are safe, experienced drivers, driving safely prepared race vehicles (not going to be detrimental to others including myself), and a friendly environment. I prefer road course style racing not autox or drag. I want something also IF possible to be considered a "Driving School" for insurance purposes. What are your suggestions, experiences, questions that would help me choose the right path. Thanks.

 

does SCCA even have "fun days at the track" or "Drivers ed"? I know for sure NASA does...they have HPDE1 through HPDE4 which puts you in with people of your level. HPDE1 is signaled passing on straights only, instructors in the car, etc..... in HPDE3-4 no instructors and i think you can pass wherever.

I race east coast honda-challenge with NASA and enjoy it. I like it because the people racing are all private guys like me who don't punt people off the course just to try and get the win... it is 95% clean racing.

 

Go to www.trackschedule.com and start there. I find NASA to be expensive. Start looking for "Club" events, like Porsche, Viper, Mustang, BMW clubs. They host a lot of DE events and typically "all cars" are invited.
After you hit a few up, you'll start noticing that you like how one club runs/organizes an event over another. Like in my area I prefer CIRPCA events.

 

Both NASA and SCCA require you to pass a school and get your license before you can race.

 

I think your slightly confused, both SCCA and NASA sanction wheel-to-wheel racing (rollcage, race license, preped car necessary). On the other hand, a SCCA or NASA membership gives you access to a variety of other non-competitive functions (Solo2 at a discount, insurance, driving schools, etc.). If you just want to drive around the track with an instructor and have some fun, go to one of the sites that list track days in your area. You could save the $100 for membership.

 

I dont want to drive with an instructor, I really hate driving with anybody in the car. I am looking to improve my racing skills as well as have fun in a semi-competitive environment. Not where people are pushing your car off the track and driving ridiculous, but a challenge that is worth while. I do realize SCCA and NASA make you pass both a physical examination and driving test that is why I narrowed it down to those two, because they seem professional and definately make sure that there are competent and safe drivers on the track.

 

The first question to ask yourself is "how much money do I have to spend on this sport?" What you can afford will determine what you can do. Racing is very expensive. For wheel 2 wheel road racing figure a minimum yearly budget of $5000. That does not include a car and car prep; just consumables, entry fees, travel expenses. Figure a minimum of $8000 for a prepped, low horsepower car. Figure a minimum of $20000 for a tow vehicle and trailer. And remember, you might wreck your car any time you are on track and there is no such thing as race car collision insurance so, at any time your $8000 car investment may be gone. Also since speeds are high and you are usually at the limit of adhesion there is a fair risk of getting hurt or killed

So, if you don't have $33000 lying around for the first year and probably $10000 for every additional year or are not willing to take the risks forget about wheel 2 wheel racing.

If you wish to go to track days then you really don't need to join either club. Most clubs will let anyone with a car and a helmet drive. But its not racing. You can only pass in approved areas. Also track day events almost always require you to take an instructor around at least until you prove to them that you are not a danger to yourself and others. Cost - figure each track day will cost you a total of $500 and you can still wad up your car and insurance mey not pay for it. Also since most organizations do not require any safety equipment other than helmet and seatbelts there is a fair risk of getting hurt or killed. So if you can't afford to total your car or you don''t wish to take the physical risks then forget about track days.

If you want to do a low cost, low risk motorsport, think about autocross. Wear and tear on the car is much less than a track day. The cost is probably $20-$50 per day. There is plenty of fun to be had. Its pretty damn safe. Probably safer than driving on a highway at rush hour. Almost no one gets hurt or killed.

BTW if you want to learn how to drive you will need an instructor with you. I do not understand your objection to instruction but rest assured that self taught race drivers are failures.

regards,
alan

 

You haven't gave us what your experience level is. What is it? My guess is that since you are asking these questions you have limited experience. If that is the case I would advise taking that instructor with you. MOF, try to get with as many instructors as you can. The more input the better. If I've misread your post, I apologize.

Most groups I've been with have an advanced group that do not require instructors. (You can only get in these groups based on prior driving experience)

Intermediate groups eventually have the instructor 'sign off' the student and let the go solo. In these groups they typically ride with you the 1st day and then let you go solo the 2nd & 3rd.

 

I am about Intermediate level. As far as my financial concerns are, they are obviously a limited factor for racers, but I think the best choice for me since racing consumes time and monetary resources is to join a local chapter or club, is anyone a member of the SCCA or NASA by chance that can give "an insider view" of what its like, before I really make a serious commitment.

BTW - I appreciate all the comments, suggestions, and help presented in this thread. Thanks!

 

Actually, you are never allowed to pass during braking or in brake zones in any hpde class.

 

Hi there, as far as what your best route to go is it really depends on what you want to do. If you want to just become more comfortable with your car at the limit, would probably be HPDE series of events going from driving with an instructor at first to HPDE4 where there is pretty much unregulated passing. If you want to learn how to race, your much better off starting with a full fledged race school, something like a Skip Barber 3 day or a longer Bondurant or even a big Bertil Roos type school. I have attended a Skip Barber 3 day school at Summit point, which I needed to do in order to get my SCCA regional liscence. I think in terms of learning race car dynamics and to learn the most for your time and money about actual wheel to wheel racing there is nothing better. Also the suggestion to try solo is a good one, being that it is relatively cheap compaired to a full fledged trackday, also the probability of totalling your car at a solo is very very slim which I think should make it something you definately look into(also all other autocross varieties).

Hope this helped?

Scorke

p.s.- Pm or im if you have any more questions.

 

Speaking as someone who has attended both NASA and SCCA events, it sounds like you want NASA. They have HPDE: High Performance Driver's Education (hence the driving school title). You will have to do at least your first run session with an instructor in the car, just to make sure you're safe. When an instructor deams you as safe (which they like to do so they can go out and play themselves) you can drive alone for the rest of your NASA life.

SCCA, on the other hand, doesn't have much in the way of open track events (at least not here in California). They have a well known autocross program, Club road racing, and do host many schools, but they are literally driver's schools, like for those who want to jump into wheel-to-wheel racing. NASA also offers that, but you only have to take that if you are looking to compete in head on racing.

One more thing, if you are just looking for open track sessions on a road course and not competitive racing, you don't even have to join either of them. www.speedventures.net www.racerfactory.com and www.redlinetrackevents.com are just a few examples of organizations that hold frequent open track events in Southern California. I have attended events from all but one of those, and personally choose redline or speedventures for their lower prices and sometimes higher track time.

Comparison in short:
SCCA is best for autocross and competitive road racing
NASA is best for open track sessions and competitive road racing
(as far as California is concerned)